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+--- Thread: An update on research of interest. (/thread-3173.html)
An update on research of interest. - SSlater - 11-03-2016 04:14 PM
I'm trying to find Thomas F. Harney, after the war, without much success, so I resorted to "winging it". Since he stated that he planned to return to "Nuawlins" (that's New Orleans, the way they say it in "Luzianna"), but he was too late for the 1860 Census and too early for the 1870 Census, but he was right on time for the "Find a Grave" site. Also, I kept in mind, that because the Amnesty Proclamations were yet to be heard from, he would be trying to hide. So, I searched very loosely - - and I found an "F. Harney", who died in 1866. That's Weak information, but very encouraging. I have sent for Vital Records. Wish me luck! PS. I cannot find this Harney anywhere else.
More on Sarah. (Sarah who? I don't know for sure - she has 4 names that I can think of.) Since we now have more info on husband #2, Jacob Long, I researched him in depth. True, they apparently tied the knot, but she does not appear in any of his records. There seems to be a lack of cohabitation and connubial bliss. She is not shown in the Census records, but he lists all of his children, all of their children, all the cooks, and household help. The same is true of his Obituary, but never mentions Sarah.
She married him using a name nobody recognizes, Nettie G. Slater. It appears that she wanted to use his name, but he had nothing to do with her name. Thus, she destroyed any way of searching for her. (She was also worried about the Amnesty Proclamation, in 1866). Apparently IT WORKED! It took us 150+ years , to tie them together.
RE: An update on research of interest. - SSlater - 11-18-2016 09:20 PM
This is a report on Harney - after the war.
The search for Thomas F. Harney after he left Elmira - is/was no easy task. The search process was made infinitely more difficult by those who recorded his enlistment and Service details. Their penmanship is unreadable. Harney was sometimes referred to as T. F. Harney or S. F. Harney, or T. Harney and various other titles. I had to examine them all.
When Harney was captured in 1862 he was interviewed and one of the questions was "Were you ever married and have children?". His answer was "None". The interviewer deduced that "He was never married". I don't agree. It was Harney's skillful way of avoiding an answer to an unskilled interviewer. I learned - Harney dose not always tell the truth. It is OK to remember what he said but look for a more definitive answer.
Keeping all this in mind, let me tell you what I have found. I assure you, I am still looking.
On August 22, 1865, Thomas Hearny (Note that spelling) enlisted in the U. S. Army at Camp Bailey, Maryland. (PS. That spelling does not appear anywhere else in my search.) Was this "Our" Harney? If you Google "Camp Bailey", you get "Annapolis Parole Camp, Maryland. (I have never seen this reference before this.)
Here is my educated guess. Harney was released from Elmira on 7 July 1865 and started South. He headed for the D.C. area because he knew there was a cache of explosives there, waiting for him to pick-them-up. I have no idea whether they were in Washington, hidden by Stringfellow, or hidden by Booth, or he stashed them near Arundel Tavern, in Fairfax County. (As you know, no one had any explosives with them when captured.)
A very important aspect of this mission, that is rarely discussed, was the fact that Confederacy was desperate for this drastic act had to be successful, by mid-April, or the Confederacy would be defeated. Thus, Stringfellow met with Davis, then left for Washington. Mosby got new orders, that took precedence over all else he was doing. Booth was involved as a junior participant. The "New York Crowd" approved all that was to be done. The Plan was BIG. Harney was to "pull it off".
Back to Harney and the Army. Why would he reenlist? He believed he was SAFE, in the Army. or did he just want a job? This was the only life he knew. I can show you where he was, almost every day from before 1850, to after 1855, in the Army. He needed to "make a living".
I'm sure there will be more. I will report, as I find it. Please give me your comments, I need your help.
Correction: second to last line "1850 to 1865". Sorry!
RE: An update on research of interest. - RJNorton - 11-19-2016 05:29 AM
(11-18-2016 09:20 PM)SSlater Wrote: The "New York Crowd" approved all that was to be done.
From the beginning I have had trouble grasping the makeup/goals of the "New York Crowd." Although I have not read Dixie Reckoning I did read what the late Rick Stelnick wrote for the Surratt Courier. My memory is that Stelnick's theory was Booth was not assigned to kill Lincoln. Rather Lincoln was to be kidnapped by Booth on Easter Sunday. The New York crowd was shocked and angered that Booth acted on his own and killed Lincoln two days before the kidnap was to take place. If memory serves me I think Stelnick felt Booth was escaping Washington as much from fear of what the New York crowd would do to him as what the federal government would do.
John, in your research, it sounds like you would reject Stelnick's theory because you feel the New York Crowd knew of the plan to bomb the White House. Am I saying your feelings correctly?
RE: An update on research of interest. - SSlater - 11-19-2016 03:26 PM
(11-19-2016 05:29 AM)RJNorton Wrote:Roger. Thanks for your interest.(11-18-2016 09:20 PM)SSlater Wrote: The "New York Crowd" approved all that was to be done.
From the beginning I have had trouble grasping the makeup/goals of the "New York Crowd." Although I have not read Dixie Reckoning I did read what the late Rick Stelnick wrote for the Surratt Courier. My memory is that Stelnick's theory was Booth was not assigned to kill Lincoln. Rather Lincoln was to be kidnapped by Booth on Easter Sunday. The New York crowd was shocked and angered that Booth acted on his own and killed Lincoln two days before the kidnap was to take place. If memory serves me I think Stelnick felt Booth was escaping Washington as much from fear of what the New York crowd would do to him as what the federal government would do.
John, in your research, it sounds like you would reject Stelnick's theory because you feel the New York Crowd knew of the plan to bomb the White House. Am I saying your feelings correctly?
I never read Stelnick - because he was so controversial. (I wish I had) ( maybe I will).
As I understand it, Richmond people realized, in early March, that things were very bad for the South, so they looked for something drastic to turn the war around and it had to be accomplished by mid-April. Thus, Davis met with Stringfellow - someone he trusted implicitly. Stringfellow went to Washington - for a month - to develop a plan and set it up. He was in Washington on March 17th - when Booth tried his kidnap scheme. I'll bet he was there when Booth failed. He had first hand knowledge that the Kidnap plan was OUT! So he recommended to Richmond "better try something else!". Time was running out for the South so they turned to the "Blow up the White House" scheme. (not really the plan, but that is what Atzerodt call it.)
With that plan in mind Booth went to New York (he told Atzerodt about the plan when he got backfrom New York.) Someone from New York came to D.C. and conferred with Booth and Booth discussed the plan with his action group and they all approved the plan. Richmond provided Harney, to be the "Expert". I have to ask this question. Was Harney sent to be an "Observer/Expert" or was he to "do the Job"? We don't know. (He left Richmond with NO TOOLS!)
(He may have expected Mosby to provide the heavy stuff).
As a "P.S. - They were not about to "Blow up the White House". TOO IFFY. If they were to use enough powder to Blow up the White House, they better not be anywhere near the White House, when it Blew - yet the plan was to sing him a song. WHAT? YES!!!
In my opinion and I have worked with explosives (as a minor observer) but it had to be small. I suggest - Lincoln was to step on a small mine, or it was to be detonated - when he was in the proper position. The observers could be s close as 20 feet. I have observed "ship mines" being detonated and I suggest that you watch from the next County. (They throw up a huge plume and a pressure blast goes out, then they drop a ton of water on a BIG area. If I'm describing a demolished building - get back a little further. (He won't hear the song, any how - his ears would have popped.)
In my opinion (Developed - reading the material presented) the New York Crowd was "upset" because "their plan failed." Booth had been ORDERED not to kill Lincoln. He and everyone else knew Lincoln was to Die. He reacted to the failure and decided that Richmond NEEDED Lincoln dead, so he resorted to the next-best plan, to appease Richmond, and to collect any reward money, for doing the "Dirty Work".
Want More?
Some Guesses. Was Booth expected to kidnap Lincoln on Easter, and if that failed, then "blow up the White House". We do know that Hogan gave Booth the word - not to shoot Lincoln. That means that Richmond knew Booth's plan, in its entirety. I have assumed Booth got that message sometime in early April - which caused him to run around the country to find out what was going on.
Then, if someone in Richmond didn't know that Booth was already informed of Harney's mission, and was told to back off on his shooting plan. It appears that Richmond was well informed on all the various plans, and was informing the people in the field to watch out for one another. (Harney might have "Blown up" Booth, along with Lincoln.) Do you think they might have sung that song to Booth? He He He!.
RE: An update on research of interest. - RJNorton - 11-20-2016 10:46 AM
John, here is a small tidbit of what Rick Stelnick wrote:
"By April 1, 1865, Thomas Arnold Demill felt a lot better, all things considered. John Wilkes Booth had agreed to agree. The abduction of Abraham Lincoln would take place on Easter Sunday. Not only would Jesus Christ’s resurrection be celebrated, but the reversal of the fortunes of the Confederacy as well. He would show the South Carolinian aristocrats a thing or two about the art of waging war. The mission’s success would serve to silence his critics within the Inner Circle who complained the operation was too risky. The plan called for the actor, Booth, the Tennessee Captain, Boyd, and the Portuguese Captain, Celestino, to capture Lincoln at gunpoint in Washington City and deliver him to Richmond as a prisoner of war. Held hostage, Lincoln would have no choice but to reconsider the error of his ways."
RE: An update on research of interest. - SSlater - 11-20-2016 09:50 PM
(11-20-2016 10:46 AM)RJNorton Wrote: John, here is a small tidbit of what Rick Stelnick wrote:That sounds like Demill and New York were operating independently of Richmond. I agree with the "Iffy" thinking people. Separately, I can't believe that Lincoln could be "Captured at Gunpoint" - in Washington, etc. Does Stelnick provide an back-up material for any of this? This plan nearly repeats Booth's March 17th attempt, and that didn't work. TRUE! the "mission's success" would silence critics, but that's no reason to even try the caper. I need to read Stelnick to better understand what he writes.
"By April 1, 1865, Thomas Arnold Demill felt a lot better, all things considered. John Wilkes Booth had agreed to agree. The abduction of Abraham Lincoln would take place on Easter Sunday. Not only would Jesus Christ’s resurrection be celebrated, but the reversal of the fortunes of the Confederacy as well. He would show the South Carolinian aristocrats a thing or two about the art of waging war. The mission’s success would serve to silence his critics within the Inner Circle who complained the operation was too risky. The plan called for the actor, Booth, the Tennessee Captain, Boyd, and the Portuguese Captain, Celestino, to capture Lincoln at gunpoint in Washington City and deliver him to Richmond as a prisoner of war. Held hostage, Lincoln would have no choice but to reconsider the error of his ways."
RE: An update on research of interest. - RJNorton - 11-21-2016 05:35 AM
(11-20-2016 09:50 PM)SSlater Wrote: That sounds like Demill and New York were operating independently of Richmond.
Not really - Stelnick's theory was that they were actually working together. Stelnick writes, "He (Thomas Arnold Demill) had sent his son Major William Edward Demill to meet with Judah Benjamin in Virginia to notify him in person that a plan was in place to kidnap Abraham Lincoln...Thomas Arnold Demill had all but done his own small part to save the South. If Benjamin could convince the rest of the Cabinet members to do theirs by hanging on for a few weeks, the Confederate States of America would be back in business again."
I belief Stelnick's most important source for his theory was Philip Henson. After the Lincoln assassination, Grant (allegedly) secretly hired Henson to investigate who was behind it. Henson worked on it for over 20 years, and his papers are now in the hands of a descendant named Grace Henson White. Grant never gave Henson permission to release his (Henson's) findings. But, as far as I know, Grace Henson White has never released the papers publicly; apparently she only let Stelnick use them.
John, if you have doubts on all of this...I fully understand.
RE: An update on research of interest. - Gene C - 11-21-2016 07:56 AM
I read and posted about a book on Philip Henson.
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-2652.html?highlight=Henson
John, if you have your doubts, you are not alone.
RE: An update on research of interest. - SSlater - 11-22-2016 02:33 AM
I have found a second source for that "Harny" I mentioned in Post #2 and it spells his name Harney. (encouraging!) but part of his record is faded (it's the last name on the page). It MAY say that he deserted (still encouraging) - he may have lit out for New Orleans. and be the one that died there in 1866). Most of his physical traits match - age, Irish birth, etc. I think you are aware that "someone" has named the "1860 New Orleans Harney" as the "Richmond Engineering Bureau man. Am I making sense? I also found that there was a "Bailey Battery" located above Georgetown, even though Google sends you to Annapolis. Stand by! there will be more.
RE: An update on research of interest. - SSlater - 12-19-2016 11:49 PM
When Harney was received at Elmira Prison, 2 July, he had certain regulations to Follow " sign this - sign that" etc. And he declared that he wanted to sign "The Oath". and he stated that " he wanted to return to his home in New Orleans." Then on July 7, he signed the list of those who had signed the Oath, and declared his place of residence was LEESBURG, Virginia.
This is more in line with the information I found where - a month later he joined a U.S. Army unit in Maryland (A few miles up river from Washington. That's getting close to Leesburg.)
I suspect he had more active duty time in the U. S. Army before 1850 and later than 1900 (in the Spanish-American war.) But proving that this is the same "Thomas F. Harney", I can't confirm.
I'm working on it.
RE: An update on research of interest. - SSlater - 12-20-2016 05:35 PM
In my last post I mentioned LEESBURG, VA. That surprised me. Why Leesburg? My conclusion is -- All the men who were arrested with Harney stayed together in the various prisons {Alexandria, Old Capitol, and Elmira}. They were all Mosby men who lived in or near Leesburg. (Hefflebower, McVeigh, Rodgers, & Mohler).
I think it was Rodgers who started a Flour Mill Company, they worked for him/ The Mill is still in operation.
No doubt that Harney was with them, and left to join the Army in August.
Please read. My presentations are all based on facts that I have read, and the "meaning" is my evaluation of those facts. You have no "obligation" to believe them. If you find more facts that "modify" my conclusions, please let me hear from you. We all want the same thing - the truth.