+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Booth's Words (/thread-2636.html)
Pages: 1 2
Booth's Words - L Verge - 08-24-2015 06:30 PM
Bill Richter and I were recently emailing about the possibility put forth by John Fazio that Booth never intended to kidnap Lincoln - that his so-called plot was a sham. Bill sent me the following points, and I think they are worth sharing here:
"I thought maybe what Booth said on the subject might be of some value. This is from the version of the Booth letter that John McCullough said he saw and burned.
"From letter to the editor of the National Intelligencer in Rhodehammel and Taper, Right or wrong, God Judge Me: The Writings of John Wilkes Booth (Urbana: U of Ills Press, 1997), 147.
'For years I have devoted my time, my energies, and every dollar to the furtherance of an object. I have been baffled and disappointed.The hour has come when I must change my plan. Many, I know—the vulgar herd—will blame me of what I am about to do, but posterity, I am sure, will justify me. Right or wrong, God judge me, not man.'
"What plan did Booth have to change? The capture of Lincoln, of course. What new plan did he have? The assassination, of course. Rhodehammel and Taper thought this important enough to entitle their book with it."
RE: Booth's Words - Jenny - 08-24-2015 06:57 PM
Thanks, Laurie and Wild Bill. I do believe that the kidnapping plot was certainly real although I do question just how "into the plot" Booth was. I mean, I certainly think he thought it was a great idea, but the actual attempts barely seem like attempts at all. It's almost like Booth wasn't all "there" for a lack of a better word (and I am not saying he was insane).
Also not saying that Booth was planning an assassination instead of a kidnapping the entire time, and the few attempts were done half-heartedly due to that - I don't think that is true at all as mentioned in the above paragraph.
"The hour has come when I must change my plan." I agree with Wild Bill regarding Booth's own words.
RE: Booth's Words - Gene C - 08-24-2015 07:52 PM
Personally, I think Booth was a self serving, egotist, and he said and did things more for appearance sake than for substance.
This is reflected in his melodramatic writings. He behaves more like he is acting out a part, putting on a show, than seriously wanting to help the Confederacy.
If he kidnaps Lincoln, he has to share the credit. For him, killing Lincoln in a public setting was the only way he was going to get the attention he craved,
And so he misjudged, didn't think about, or didn't care about the consequences of his actions on others.
RE: Booth's Words - RJNorton - 08-25-2015 04:16 AM
In his Rockville lecture John Surratt said, "The report only reached us about three quarters of an hour before the time appointed, but so perfect was our communication that we were instantly in our saddles on the way to the hospital. This was between one and two o'clock in the afternoon. It was our intention to seize the carriage, which was drawn by a splendid pair of horses, and to have one of our men mount the box and drive direct for southern Maryland via Benning's bridge."
Later in his speech Surratt said the man in the carriage turned out to be Chase, not Lincoln. I would think JWB and the boys would have to ride fairly close to the carriage to see it was not Lincoln.
My question: does anyone know if Chase ever confirmed that his carriage was approached by a bunch of men? Or did Surratt embellish what really happened?
RE: Booth's Words - Eva Elisabeth - 08-25-2015 06:33 AM
I can't help it, I tend to feel like Gene - kidnapping IMO doesn't suit JWB's personality which was that of a tragician star actor rather than that of a team player. From all I read about him I don't feel he was someone to bare great altruistic risks without appropriate personal price-performance ratio. The risks in kidnapping would have been unproportionally high related to his estimable share of fame.
His writings themselves sound like drama, and he lied at other times, e.g. about the breaking of his leg (either in telling or writing, but at one point in any case) without necessity other than "polish".
(No question - I indeed do believe his intentions to do something for the South were very serious, but for himself likewise.)
RE: Booth's Words - Wild Bill - 08-25-2015 07:31 AM
One problem. Booth had several compatriots with whom he was willing to share credit with as they were sent after Johnson, Seward, and possibly Stanton. True he kept the plum for himself, Lincoln, but there were others. Of course his writing was dramatic, he was an actor par excellence. That he was the only one who was successful is not his fault.
RE: Booth's Words - Eva Elisabeth - 08-25-2015 08:00 AM
Nicely worded - "he kept the plum for himself". And the show.
RE: Booth's Words - L Verge - 08-25-2015 08:47 AM
First, if we assume (and yes, I'm using that dirty word) that Booth was being "driven" at first by powers above him (i.e. Confederate hierarchy, Maryland planters, or New York crowd), it is possible that he had chaffed all along at the thought of just kidnapping Lincoln - a man that he detested so much that he preferred him dead. The time to put Plan B (the one he preferred) into operation was after the fall of Richmond.
As for his lying in his writings, you know I disagree. Embellishing, yes; lying, no. His flowery verse is certainly not unusual for the times either. Booth was no country bumpkin who could barely compose a sentence. He was a master of Shakespeare and the theater arts as well as being typical of Victorian writers of his day. George Alfred Townsend and David Miller DeWitt are two such writers that have that same flare (almost nauseating to our modern standards).
Regarding Surratt's claim that the kidnap attempt en route to Campbell Hospital actually occurred, I believe that he is the only one to mention the stopping of a carriage and supposedly seeing Salmon Chase inside. Most historians dispute that there even was a carriage.
Supposedly the gang was waiting and Booth went ahead to the hospital and found out from another actor that the President was not coming. He then rode back and the men dispersed. Wasn't that when Weichmann reported seeing some of them very agitated at the boardinghouse? If there had been a carriage with Chase in it, wouldn't he or his driver have reported being set upon by "highwaymen?"
RE: Booth's Words - Pamela - 08-25-2015 09:30 AM
Carriage or not, why not kidnap Chase? He was a worthy substitute--part of Lincoln's cabinet and wouldn't have brought as much fury and pursuit raining down on them. He would have had considerable value for prisoner exchange. They were fully prepared for a kidnap, according to Surratt. Why not go through with it? It' s like organizing your gang to rob a train of a million bucks and deciding to pass on it because you discover there's only half a million. From the Rockville lecture, "We had all arrangements from Washington perfected for the purpose. Boats were in readiness to carry us across the river." If the conspiracy was really all about kidnapping for prisoner exchange, they would have done it.
Booth's statement, " God judge me, not man." It's too bad Booth didn't apply that elevated philosophy to Lincoln. Had he done so we wouldn't be discussing this tragedy today.
RE: Booth's Words - Eva Elisabeth - 08-25-2015 10:13 AM
Re.: "As for his lying in his writings, you know I disagree" - I didn't say he lied in writing, I said "either or" (telling or writing), but in one of either he did lie, not just embellish.
RE: Booth's Words - Jenny - 08-25-2015 11:42 AM
Still agree with Laurie and Wild Bill.
(Not trying to hijack the thread here - just saw Pamela's signature and realized I never addressed it when she asked about my signature a while back.)
Pamela,
I get the impression that the "Right or wrong, God judge me, not man" was written at the point after Booth had read the newspapers and learned that he was pretty much screwed. He wasn't an idiot. He knew he would hang if caught. Of course he wouldn't want to be judged by man at that point.
Wouldn't you be praying that God would judge you instead of man at that point in Booth's position? I sure as heck would be if
I were him.
It can't be taken in such a simple context as "obviously Booth didn't give Lincoln the right to be judged by God over man while he gave the right to himself which means Booth was (insert negative adjective of choice about Booth here)." You absolutely have to consider the circumstances under which it was written.
Anyway I never got to answer this whenever we were on the subject last so here you go.
RE: Booth's Words - Eva Elisabeth - 08-25-2015 01:03 PM
Jenny (et al), I think my opinion respectively not being convinced here doesn't count much as I have the least background knowledge and time spent on "him".
RE: Booth's Words - Jenny - 08-25-2015 07:12 PM
(08-25-2015 01:03 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Jenny (et al), I think my opinion respectively not being convinced here doesn't count much as I have the least background knowledge and time spent on "him".
Everyone's entitled to his/her own opinion, Eva, most or least background knowledge on a subject not withstanding.
You haven't been convinced at this point regarding Booth and the topic. That's just fine! Maybe you will eventually change your opinion as you learn more or maybe not. You are hardly the only one to hold the opinion you do.
RE: Booth's Words - Pamela - 08-25-2015 07:55 PM
Jenny, Booth wrote the words in your signature before the assassination. They were part of a letter he left in the care of his sister Asia and her husband, and turned over to authorities, by them, after the crime. I don't mean to be provocative, but yes, I do have plenty of nasty adjectives for Booth, who was an idiot. He was said to be handsome but I've always thought he looked like a weasel. Maybe because I knew he assassinated a great man. He reminds me of the character Monty in the original Mildred Pierce, full of phony charm and holding onto glories of the past.
RE: Booth's Words - Jenny - 08-25-2015 09:02 PM
(08-25-2015 07:55 PM)Pamela Wrote: Jenny, Booth wrote the words in your signature before the assassination. They were part of a letter he left in the care of his sister Asia and her husband, and turned over to authorities, by them, after the crime. I don't mean to be provocative, but yes, I do have plenty of nasty adjectives for Booth, who was an idiot. He was said to be handsome but I've always thought he looked like a weasel. Maybe because I knew he assassinated a great man. He reminds me of the character Monty in the original Mildred Pierce, full of phony charm and holding onto glories of the past.
Oops. I was thinking it was part of the diary for some reason (probably since Booth does a lot of writing about God in it), but you are sure right. Thanks for setting me straight on that!
It's apparent I need to reread all of the known Booth quotes and get them straight.Despite my idiotic mistake with the quote (embarrassing!), we'll have to agree to disagree about Booth being an idiot and looking like a weasel. I still have plenty of thoughts on that particular quote from the letter and other Booth quotes to back up my opinion that I will post tomorrow unless some of the other folks who share my opinion post first.
Again, I appreciate you pointing out my mistake!
EDIT: I will make an entirely new thread on this topic soon so this one doesn't get hijacked.
EDIT 2: Actually it's not even worth making a new thread over since the subject has already been discussed here plenty of times, and I know when not to waste my time with certain folks.