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+--- Thread: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? (/thread-2498.html)
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April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - LincolnMan - 06-06-2015 12:49 PM
Funny I never thought about it before- why did the Lincolns have guests with them that night? Did they always have guests accompany them? We have heard that there were several invitations to accompany the Lincolns that were turned down.? Why didn't they just go as a single couple? And didn't Major Rathbone and Miss Harris think it odd that they were invited as guests?
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - RJNorton - 06-06-2015 03:26 PM
Bill, I don't have a complete answer, but Clara Harris had previously attended the theater with the Lincolns. A month before, on March 15th, Clara was a part of the presidential party which was at Grover's Theatre to see "The Magic Flute." Possibly Mary enjoyed Clara's company?
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - Tom Bogar - 06-06-2015 05:00 PM
It varied. Sometimes Lincoln attended alone, dropping in to the manager’s office unannounced, chatting for a few moments, and then slipping into a curtained box where no one else would know of his presence. If the evening’s bill was an opera, he took Mary, who enjoyed them—and the attention that came with attending them—more than he did. (In fact, she had decreed that a love of theatregoing was an indispensable quality in any man she married.) For his first theatre visit as president, on January 23, 1862, to the Washington Theatre for Verdi’s Il Trovatore he took Mary and General Irvin McDowell. For plays, he preferred male company and brought personal secretaries John Nicolay and John Hay, correspondent-confidant Noah Brooks, Secretary Seward (sometimes both Sewards), or, occasionally, his son Tad. And on many occasions he brought others, like Harris, as Roger has noted. On October 5, 1863, he attended the Davenport-Wallack performance of Othello at Ford's Theatre with Secretaries Seward and Stanton. Another time he and Mary brought Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner. For Edwin Booth's Richard III at Grover's, the entire Lincoln family, with Seward and House Speaker Schuyler Colfax attended. On another occasion he braved an ice storm to walk to Grover's for Meyerbeer’s five-act, three-hour epic, Les Huguenots, with Sumner and Baron Gerolt, the elderly Prussian minister. In early February, 1865, just back from an inspection trip down the Potomac to Fortress Monroe, Lincoln sought comic relief at Ford’s in the company of Generals Grant and Burnside, to see comedian John Sleeper Clarke, brother-in-law of the Booths, in J. Stirling Coyne’s Everybody’s Friend.
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - Eva Elisabeth - 06-06-2015 06:14 PM
(06-06-2015 12:49 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: Funny I never thought about it before- why did the Lincolns have guests with them that night? Did they always have guests accompany them? We have heard that there were several invitations to accompany the Lincolns that were turned down.? Why didn't they just go as a single couple? And didn't Major Rathbone and Miss Harris think it odd that they were invited as guests?Once the newspapers had announced a presidential party of consisting of more VIPs than just the #1 couple, the need for a "Grants substitute" to keep the audience's disappointment as low as possible was sure obvious to Mr. Lincoln.
While thinking about this, I came upon some questions. When and on Suisse behalf were the Grants invited, and which way (orally? By telegram or other message/messenger?) According to W. E. Reck writes that A. Lincoln had invited the Grants on Thursday to accompany him and Mary on Good Friday evening. When exactly would that have been? I also seem to recall another version (but don't recall the source right now) according to which it was Mary who at breakfast on Good Friday morning uttered the wish to attend Ford's (while already having tickets for Grover's) and possibly being accompanied by the Grants. If the incident of Mary being mad at Grsnt's popularity at the illumination on April 13 was true it seems strange to me that she wanted the Grants to accompany them just one day later.
So,.when and how did the Grants receive the invitation?
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - RJNorton - 06-07-2015 04:41 AM
(06-06-2015 06:14 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: According to W. E. Reck writes that A. Lincoln had invited the Grants on Thursday to accompany him and Mary on Good Friday evening.
So,.when and how did the Grants receive the invitation?
Eva, is there a footnote for this? (I always have thought the invitation came on Friday, although Grant spent time with both Abraham and Mary on Thursday.)
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - Gene C - 06-07-2015 06:59 AM
The invitation was sent by a White House messenger, according to a new book called "Looking at Modern Politics to solve the riddles of the Lincoln Assassination" by Kent B Wright. His theory is immediately following the assassination Stanton, with the possible assistance of Lafayette Baker, get Lincoln's lap top computer and delete all his personal emails and any references to the Dahlgren raid. Baker has been in New York where the Federal Government has just seized a blockade running cargo ship full of cotton and tobacco. However, it's not really tobacco but cannabis. Baker, being Baker, grabs some for his own personal use and to show Stanton proof of his success in undercover operations. After they both smoke some in their pipes, believing they can cover up their actions, they give the lap top to Tad to play with, thinking they can blame the missing records on him. Big mistake, because Tad is able to restore many of the deleted letters and documents before he gets bored and moves on to playing pong. Assuming all incriminating material has been wiped off, the computer is later sold at a government surplus auction and ends up in a flea market in West Virginia.
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - Jim Page - 06-07-2015 08:37 AM
Gene, that book sounds like it's torn from today's headlines! Does Mary Todd Lincoln later run for president or become a male Olympic swimmer?
Wow!
--Jim
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - Eva Elisabeth - 06-07-2015 03:13 PM
(06-07-2015 04:41 AM)RJNorton Wrote:Roger, it's D. H. Bates' "Lincoln in the Telegraph office," p. 365.(06-06-2015 06:14 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: According to W. E. Reck writes that A. Lincoln had invited the Grants on Thursday to accompany him and Mary on Good Friday evening.
So,.when and how did the Grants receive the invitation?
Eva, is there a footnote for this? (I always have thought the invitation came on Friday, although Grant spent time with both Abraham and Mary on Thursday.)
https://archive.org/stream/lincolnintelegra00baterich
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - LincolnMan - 06-07-2015 03:17 PM
(06-07-2015 06:59 AM)Gene C Wrote: The invitation was sent by a White House messenger, according to a new book called "Looking at Modern Politics to solve the riddles of the Lincoln Assassination" by Kent B Wright. His theory is immediately following the assassination Stanton, with the possible assistance of Lafayette Baker, get Lincoln's lap top computer and delete all his personal emails and any references to the Dahlgren raid. Baker has been in New York where the Federal Government has just seized a blockade running cargo ship full of cotton and tobacco. However, it's not really tobacco but cannabis. Baker, being Baker, grabs some for his own personal use and to show Stanton proof of his success in undercover operations. After they both smoke some in their pipes, believing they can cover up their actions, they give the lap top to Tad to play with, thinking they can blame the missing records on him. Big mistake, because Tad is able to restore many of the deleted letters and documents before he gets bored and moves on to playing pong. Assuming all incriminating material has been wiped off, the computer is later sold at a government surplus auction and ends up in a flea market in West Virginia.
Gene: as always you bring us smiles!
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - RJNorton - 06-08-2015 04:39 AM
(06-07-2015 03:13 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Roger, it's D. H. Bates' "Lincoln in the Telegraph office," p. 365.
https://archive.org/stream/lincolnintelegra00baterich
Thanks, Eva! I had always thought that the Lincolns had invitations from both theaters (Grover's and Ford's) but didn't decide where they were going until Friday morning. I think White House messengers were sent to each theater in the late morning on Friday with the information that Ford's had been chosen. But if Bates is correct both the decision and invitation came on Thursday, not Friday.
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - Eva Elisabeth - 06-08-2015 04:50 AM
Yes, and according to Bates, Grant had already cancelled his decision before Lincoln went to the War Department, which he did before the cabinet meeting.
I wonder if the common attendance was planned before or after the illumination incident concerning Mary and Grant.
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - LincolnMan - 06-10-2015 06:28 AM
It always strikes me as odd that Grant would turn down Lincoln's invitation. Afterall, Lincoln was Grant's boss. I think it also speaks to the good relationship they borh had with each other that made it easier, perhaps, for Grant to do so.
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - Jim Garrett - 06-10-2015 09:50 AM
I think the answer is very simple regarding the guests. After four long years of war, Lincoln wanted to celebrate with the man that he may have felt was the only one who could bring closure to the war. It would be a somewhat private celebration, but would be shared with those at Ford's. I seems that the relationships with the chief executive was much more casual and may have been so with many chief executives back in the 1800's.
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - RJNorton - 06-21-2015 05:09 PM
(06-10-2015 09:50 AM)Jim Garrett Wrote: I seems that the relationships with the chief executive was much more casual and may have been so with many chief executives back in the 1800's.
I think that's a good point, Jim. Numerous people turned down the Lincolns' theater invitation.
RE: April 14, 1865: why did the Lincolns have guests? - LincolnToddFan - 06-21-2015 08:44 PM
I've often wondered why the Lincolns were in such a fever to drum up guests for that fateful night.
Why not have decided to simply attend alone? Why was a group party preferable?
