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Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - loetar44 - 04-20-2015 03:48 PM
I have some questions, hoping someone out there can help.
(1) Does someone know when exactly the four bronze statues, representing artillery, infantry, cavalry and navy, were placed at the tomb? I have conflicting data, but suspect: navy (at the North-East corner) and infantry (South-West) both in September 1877; artillery (South-West) in April 1882 and cavalry (South-East) in 1883 (or was it 1879 ???)
(2) In june 1890 the Illinois Division of Sons of Veterans took steps to place the three allegorical figures of War, Justice and Peace on the tomb, on the level with the statue of Lincoln (placed in October 1874, South side of the obelisk). This was the original design by Larkin Mead: Freedom on the West side, Justice on the East, and Peace on the North. Does someone know why this was never done? The total cost of these three figures was estimated $15,000
(3) I’m looking for (a) photo(s) of President Grant at the dedication of the tomb on October 15, 1874. Can someone help?
A BIG thanks as always!
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - Finnigan - 01-26-2016 02:29 PM
(04-20-2015 03:48 PM)loetar44 Wrote: I have some questions, hoping someone out there can help.I would refer to JC Power on this one, and double check with the ISJ or the Register. Your dates match with what he says in his book. The last statue to be placed was the Cavalry in 1883.
(1) Does someone know when exactly the four bronze statues, representing artillery, infantry, cavalry and navy, were placed at the tomb? I have conflicting data, but suspect: navy (at the North-East corner) and infantry (South-West) both in September 1877; artillery (South-West) in April 1882 and cavalry (South-East) in 1883 (or was it 1879 ???)
The interesting thing is that the positions of the statues had changed. This one really confounded me when I was looking at the photos, but back when they had fewer than 4 of the military statues, some of the ones that are NOW at the north side (back) were instead at the south side (front).
I don't have my notes here with me, otherwise I could give you a better answer. But it's interesting to note that the positions of the statues was by no means set in stone. In the NLMA records collection at the ALPL in Springfield you can find some pencil sketches done probably by Mead, showing proposed arrangements of the 4 military statues.
One of my favorite pencil sketches in that collection is the one that shows how to unbox (open this side of the crate first, and so on) and assemble the Naval statue. This was definitely a "some assembly required" type of kit! There was even a well-placed note in the corner reading to the effect of "We tested this for fit several times at the foundry before shipping it to Springfield." In other words, if you can't get this assembled, you're doing something wrong!
Quote:(2) In june 1890 the Illinois Division of Sons of Veterans took steps to place the three allegorical figures of War, Justice and Peace on the tomb, on the level with the statue of Lincoln (placed in October 1874, South side of the obelisk). This was the original design by Larkin Mead: Freedom on the West side, Justice on the East, and Peace on the North. Does someone know why this was never done? The total cost of these three figures was estimated $15,000You just said why this was never done: cost. :-)
When this issue came through the Illinois Legislature in the late 1890s, there were two possible options: the one without these additional statues, and the one with. And they chose the less expensive option. The figures were to be of granite. The problem is that legislature only appropriated $100,000 for the 1899-1900 reconstruction and the estimated cost of rebuilding the monument with these figures would have put the cost above what had been appropriated.
Quote:(3) I’m looking for (a) photo(s) of President Grant at the dedication of the tomb on October 15, 1874. Can someone help?Do you have reason to believe that such photos exist? The only image I can think of with Grant is the one from around 1868, and it's a lithograph of Grant at the temporary tomb.
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - RJNorton - 01-26-2016 03:41 PM
Welcome to the forum, David!
Kees, I have never seen a "Grant at Lincoln Tomb" (1874) photo. President Grant's handwritten notes for his speech are online here.
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - Anita - 01-26-2016 06:13 PM
Welcome and thanks for the link to the new Lincoln tomb web site.
I find it very unusual there are no photos or images for an such an important event attended by Gov. Oglesby and "On the dedication day, among those present were President Grant, Vice President Wilson, Generals Sherman, Belknap, McDowell, Pope, Custer, Davis, and others" http://iltomb.org/
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - Finnigan - 01-26-2016 09:45 PM
I find it hard to believe that there were no photographers out that day. But whether any photographs are known to survive is another matter of course. I've queried the Lincoln collection at ALPLM and I'll report back.
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - loetar44 - 01-27-2016 04:29 AM
Thanks for your answers and welcome to this forum David! You've made one of the best choices of your life to join this bunch of world's most amazing, kind and helpful people!
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - Eva Elisabeth - 01-27-2016 06:47 AM
Welcome to the forum and thanks for all the info and your efforts to further inquire! I also had never seen the lithograph you linked to!
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - Finnigan - 01-27-2016 09:45 AM
Thanks, everyone.
Jennifer Ericson of the Lincoln Collection at ALPLM just replied back to me a few minutes ago and said "Sorry, no photographs."
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - Thomas Kearney - 01-27-2016 10:25 AM
Welcome Finnigan to this elite society!
Dates and newspaper articles for placement of 4 military statues on Lincoln's Tomb - Finnigan - 01-28-2016 03:39 PM
I spent a few minutes going through the microfilm and have attached the three articles from the Illinois State Journal documenting the placement of all 4 of the military statues.
The first was the Infantry group, placed September 12, 1877. The Naval group was placed a day or two later. The groups are both mentioned in the same newspaper article.
[attachment=2129]
The third was the Artillery group, placed April 13, 1882.
[attachment=2130]
Finally, the Cavalry group was placed March 13, 1883. This newspaper article has an incorrect year, which I marked in red and included a citation for the correct year.
[attachment=2131]
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - L Verge - 01-28-2016 07:07 PM
Finnegan - You are a breath of fresh air on this forum that has dealt with a handful of posters over the past year who are full of questions and suppositions, but no documentable evidence, and somehow manage to sidestep the facts when presented to them. Welcome aboard, our friend!
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - loetar44 - 01-29-2016 07:37 AM
(01-28-2016 03:39 PM)Finnigan Wrote: I spent a few minutes going through the microfilm and have attached the three articles from the Illinois State Journal documenting the placement of all 4 of the military statues.
The first was the Infantry group, placed September 12, 1877. The Naval group was placed a day or two later. The groups are both mentioned in the same newspaper article.
The third was the Artillery group, placed April 13, 1882.
Finally, the Cavalry group was placed March 13, 1883. This newspaper article has an incorrect year, which I marked in red and included a citation for the correct year.
Thank you so much David for this information! Formidable
RE: Mead, Tomb & Grant .... help needed.... - Finnigan - 05-10-2016 11:30 AM
(04-20-2015 03:48 PM)loetar44 Wrote: (2) In june 1890 the Illinois Division of Sons of Veterans took steps to place the three allegorical figures of War, Justice and Peace on the tomb, on the level with the statue of Lincoln (placed in October 1874, South side of the obelisk). This was the original design by Larkin Mead: Freedom on the West side, Justice on the East, and Peace on the North. Does someone know why this was never done? The total cost of these three figures was estimated $15,000Another tidbit from the newspaper.
The following appeared in the Illinois State Journal of Thursday June 9, 1887:
Statuary for the Monument
When Mr. Elliot F. Shepard of New York, was here, a few days ago, he stated to a Journal reporter that a movement is on foot in New York to complete the collection of statuary on the Lincoln monument. The bronze statue of Lincoln stands on the south base of the obelisk and the movement to which he refers looks to filling the corresponding spaces on the east, west and north, the statues to be allegorical figures representing Justice, Liberty and Peace. Mr. Shepard said he had personally contributed to the fund for this purpose. The resident members of the Lincoln Monument association had no knowledge of the project referred to until told of it by a Journal representative. They are at a loss to understand it.