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Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - HerbS - 08-16-2012 04:18 PM
A few years ago I wanted to compare Elmira,NY Prison to Camp Ford in Tyler,Texas.My greatgrandfather was in Camp Ford and lived to come back home and farm in The Finger Lakes Region of NYState.I was fortunate enough to have his diary.I was very interested in comparing the conditions in each prison.It seemed that life was less harsh at Camp Ford.The remarkable facts that I uncovered about the number of deaths of Confederate Prisoners at Elmira.I counted 72 deaths within 3 days of Lincoln's Assassination!---Thoughts?
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - Gene C - 08-16-2012 04:52 PM
Don't know much about Camp Fort, but at Andersonville, GA nearly 13,000 prisoners died in a period of 14 months. At one time in August 1864, there were 32,000 prisoners held in a 26 1/2 acre compound. (US National Park statistics)
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - L Verge - 08-16-2012 05:55 PM
Herb,
Either there was a serious germ going around the Elmira prison camp in mid-April to cause that many deaths in three days, OR there was retribution for Lincoln's death (which would be considered a war crime in a civilized society, IMO). I wonder if 77 Confederate prisoners held in Hellmira forgot to keep their mouths shut upon hearing of Lincoln's demise?
The Union's prison camp for Confederates at Point Lookout, Maryland, had staggering statistics also, but I don't recall reading about any backlash on the prisoners because of the assassination. That would have been a likely place for retribution since it was located at the southern most tip of Southern Maryland, where the natives had been a thorn in the Union side throughout the war.
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - LincolnMan - 08-16-2012 06:00 PM
Herb: do you still have the diary? What a neat family treasure. He was a POW at Camp Ford-wow. How was he captured? What command was he with?
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - HerbS - 08-17-2012 07:07 AM
Bill,My great grandfather was the 160th-NY[Banks Unit].He was shot and wandered off at The Battle of Pleasant Hill.Yes-I still have his diary and I wrote story about just Google-"A Yankee Prisoner in Texas"or anything about stories at Camp Ford!
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - LincolnMan - 08-17-2012 07:14 AM
Herb: I will do so! Thanks.
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - Gene C - 08-17-2012 09:09 AM
(08-17-2012 07:07 AM)HerbS Wrote: Bill,My great grandfather was the 160th-NY[Banks Unit].He was shot and wandered off at The Battle of Pleasant Hill.Yes-I still have his diary and I wrote story about just Google-"A Yankee Prisoner in Texas"or anything about stories at Camp Ford!
Since Herb is to modest to tell you the web site, I will
http://leemakinson.tripod.com/herb.htm
It's an interesting story.
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - HerbS - 08-17-2012 10:28 AM
Thanks Gene-It was first published in a book sold at battlefield bookstores-"Authentic Civil War Stories"
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - Laurie Verge - 08-17-2012 10:37 AM
Very interesting - and I think I learned a new meaning for the word "shebang." The only time I have ever heard that word was in slang, something like "the whole shebang." I never thought about the definition of that word.
I'm heading to the dictionary, but the way it is used in Herb's ancestral diary, it certainly seems to refer to a form of shelter at the prison camp. Can anyone edumacate me further?
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - HerbS - 08-17-2012 12:42 PM
Laurie-You are correct! That is where the word supposedly came from."The Whole Shebang".The best part of his story is that he survived!--Fun Research!
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - Laurie Verge - 08-17-2012 01:27 PM
Well Herb, your great-grandfather just made me spend my lunch hour searching for the meaning of "shebang." Most of the dictionaries and other sources that I investigated made no mention of it having anything to do with a form of shelter. They refer to it meaning "the whole package" or even the opening something-or-other in the computer field. One source states that the word only dates to 1869.
One site did have a place where people could comment on what the word meant, and several people posted that they had seen it in interpretive signs at Andersonville, Georgia, and that it referred to shelters for the prisoners.
Finally, I hit a site called Wiktionary, and they made reference to a shebang being a lean-to or temporary shelter. But, they also said that it was an archaic word.
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - HerbS - 08-17-2012 03:19 PM
Thanks-Laurie,I did find on line-that Walt Whitman first used the term in 1862.So that might be where the prisoners got that term.
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - Laurie Verge - 08-17-2012 03:40 PM
I saw the Mark Twain reference also, but his use of the word referred to a form of transportation similar to the old omnibuses. I am so confused!
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - LincolnMan - 08-17-2012 10:57 PM
Never heard of "shebang" referring to shelter. Didn't find it in any list of Civil War slang. Shazam! Oops, that was Gomer Pyle.
RE: Hellmira! Execution-Retribution-or War Crimes? - L Verge - 08-18-2012 01:09 PM
I don't know why, but the word "shebang" rings Irish to my ears. I wonder if the lean-to shelters at the prison camps were coined that by the Irish inmates. Note that both references so far have been in Confederate camps that held Union prisoners. There had to be a lot of Irish among those prisoners.