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+--- Thread: about a flag and some relics (/thread-2102.html)
about a flag and some relics - loetar44 - 01-02-2015 11:05 AM
I recall, reading years ago, that Abraham Lincoln was buried with (1) the American flag and (2) some relics of an ill-fated Arctic expedition, led by a British explorer. First, I doubt that Lincoln was buried with the flag, because I also have read somewhere that out of respect for the flag, flags should be displayed over the coffins, but should not be buried with them. Perhaps, I’m wrong. Second, I tend to believe that indeed some relics of an Artic expedition were put in Lincoln’s coffin, but can’t remember when and why that was done and where I read that. Possibly someone in the forum has more info re. the flag and the relics. Thanks.
RE: about a flag and some relics - RJNorton - 01-02-2015 12:29 PM
(01-02-2015 11:05 AM)loetar44 Wrote: I recall, reading years ago, that Abraham Lincoln was buried with (1) the American flag and (2) some relics of an ill-fated Arctic expedition, led by a British explorer. First, I doubt that Lincoln was buried with the flag, because I also have read somewhere that out of respect for the flag, flags should be displayed over the coffins, but should not be buried with them. Perhaps, I’m wrong. Second, I tend to believe that indeed some relics of an Artic expedition were put in Lincoln’s coffin, but can’t remember when and why that was done and where I read that. Possibly someone in the forum has more info re. the flag and the relics. Thanks.
Kees, your memory is outstanding!! This happened when the coffin was in New York.
"Parker Snow had presented an interesting relic to be interred in President Abraham Lincoln's coffin. In the 26 April 1865 New York Herald Page 1 Column 4, was the following article: "Captain Parker Snow, the distinguished commander of the Arctic and Antarctic exploring expeditions, presented to Gen. Dix, with a view of their being interred in the coffin of the President, some interesting relics of Sir John Franklin's ill fated expedition. They consisted of a tattered leaf of a Prayer Book, on which the first word legible was the word "Martyr," and a piece of fringe and some portions of uniform. These suggestive relics, which are soon to be buried out of sight, were found in a boat lying under the head of a human skeleton."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Parker_Snow
Also, it is mentioned in the book "Lincoln and New York" here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=rrvgU3b0uHYC&pg=PA252&lpg=PA252&dq=%22prior+to+closing+the+coffin+at+noon%22&source=bl&ots=r5S9QcmsUb&sig=o8h5fMA3Af83smDWM00jrfrTrfM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SdamVKvgO4OngwTcpoH4Dw&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22prior%20to%20closing%20the%20coffin%20at%20noon%22&f=false
RE: about a flag and some relics - loetar44 - 01-02-2015 01:47 PM
(01-02-2015 12:29 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(01-02-2015 11:05 AM)loetar44 Wrote: I recall, reading years ago, that Abraham Lincoln was buried with (1) the American flag and (2) some relics of an ill-fated Arctic expedition, led by a British explorer. First, I doubt that Lincoln was buried with the flag, because I also have read somewhere that out of respect for the flag, flags should be displayed over the coffins, but should not be buried with them. Perhaps, I’m wrong. Second, I tend to believe that indeed some relics of an Artic expedition were put in Lincoln’s coffin, but can’t remember when and why that was done and where I read that. Possibly someone in the forum has more info re. the flag and the relics. Thanks.
Kees, your memory is outstanding!! This happened when the coffin was in New York.
"Parker Snow had presented an interesting relic to be interred in President Abraham Lincoln's coffin. In the 26 April 1865 New York Herald Page 1 Column 4, was the following article: "Captain Parker Snow, the distinguished commander of the Arctic and Antarctic exploring expeditions, presented to Gen. Dix, with a view of their being interred in the coffin of the President, some interesting relics of Sir John Franklin's ill fated expedition. They consisted of a tattered leaf of a Prayer Book, on which the first word legible was the word "Martyr," and a piece of fringe and some portions of uniform. These suggestive relics, which are soon to be buried out of sight, were found in a boat lying under the head of a human skeleton."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Parker_Snow
Also, it is mentioned in the book "Lincoln and New York" here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=rrvgU3b0uHYC&pg=PA252&lpg=PA252&dq=%22prior+to+closing+the+coffin+at+noon%22&source=bl&ots=r5S9QcmsUb&sig=o8h5fMA3Af83smDWM00jrfrTrfM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SdamVKvgO4OngwTcpoH4Dw&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22prior%20to%20closing%20the%20coffin%20at%20noon%22&f=false
Thank you Roger !!
In J.C. Power’s “Abraham Lincoln, his Great Funeral Cortege from Washington City to Springfield, Illinois” (1872), I found on page 47/48 the following: “About ten o'clock, on the morning of April 25, while a galaxy of distinguished officers were assembled around the coffin, Captain Parker Snow, commander of the Arctic and Antarctic expedition, presented some very singular relics. They consisted of a leaf from the book of Common Prayer and a piece of paper, on which were glued some fringes. They were found in a boat, under the
skull of a skeleton which had been identified as the remains of one of Sir John Franklin's men. The most singular thing about these relics was the fact that the only words that were preserved in a legible condition were “ The Martyr," in capitals. General Dix deposited these relics in the coffin. At a few minutes past eleven o'clock, the coffin was closed, preparatory to resuming its westward journey.”
Here is a picture of Sir John Franklin (1786-1847), who led the British voyage to find the Northwest Passage.
[attachment=1338]
And Lloyd Lewis wrote in “The Assassination of Lincoln: History and Myth” p. 123: “Mad things happened. An Arctic explorer, Capt Parker Snow, brought to the casket a leaf from a prayer-book that he had found in Polar ices by the skeleton of a victim in the ill fated expedition of Sir John Franklin. The only legible word on the page was “martyr,” and Capt. Snow wanted the relic put in the coffin with Lincoln’s corpse. It was done.”
BTW. Power speaks of a “coffin” and Lewis of a “casket”. The right word to us is “coffin”. The difference between a coffin and a casket is essentially the shape. A coffin typically resembles the shape of a body and has six or eight sides. It is wider at the top for the shoulders and gradually decreases in width toward the opposite end where the feet are placed. A casket is typically a four-sided rectangular box and does not depict the shape of a dead body.
On September 26, 1901, Lincoln's body was exhumed and the coffin was opened and 23 people were present. Wikipedia says: “On his [Lincoln’s] chest, they could see some bits of red fabric — remnants of the American flag with which he was buried, which had by then disintegrated” How reliable is this account? There is no footnote. See “Last viewing” in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funeral_and_burial_of_Abraham_Lincoln
Other sites don't mention the flag, and the ones that do are generally quoting the Wikipedia article. What were the rules of flag etiquette? Were they different in Lincoln's time?
From Wikipedia: Traditionally, the flag of the United States plays a role in military funerals, and occasionally in funerals of other civil servants (such as law enforcement officers, fire fighters, and U.S. presidents). A burial flag is draped over the deceased's casket as a pall during services. Just prior to the casket being lowered into the ground, the flag is ceremonially folded and presented to the deceased's next of kin as a token of respect.
The flag may not touch the ground. Was it allowed to burry a flag? Just wondering....
RE: about a flag and some relics - RJNorton - 01-02-2015 02:04 PM
This is not a definitive reply, but it is mentioned in an article on this topic by Dorothy Meserve Kunhardt in the February 15, 1963, edition of Life magazine. She writes about the people looking at Lincoln's remains and says, "There were red spots, too, that looked like vestiges of material, and someone said there must have been a small American flag that had rotted away."
In Stealing Lincoln's Body author Thomas Craughwell writes, "Lincoln's black broadcloth suit was flecked with tiny mounds of yellow mold, as well as bits of red fabric, perhaps the remnants of a small American flag that had been laid on the president's chest and that had since disintegrated, just like the fraying remnants of kid gloves they could see on Lincoln's large, powerful hands."
At this point I am thinking the flag was an assumption or theory people made at the viewing in 1901, but I do not recall ever reading that a flag had (for certain) been placed inside Lincoln's coffin.
RE: about a flag and some relics - LincolnToddFan - 01-02-2015 03:17 PM
Hmmm...this is interesting! I do recall reading somewhere that in Springfield, just before the coffin was sealed and placed into the crypt, a folded American flag was placed over AL's chest.
If it was not the remains of a flag what could the remnants of material found covering the body when it was exhumed have been?
RE: about a flag and some relics - loetar44 - 01-02-2015 04:11 PM
(01-02-2015 02:04 PM)RJNorton Wrote: perhaps the remnants of a small American flag that had been laid on the president's chest and that had since disintegrated, just like the fraying remnants of kid gloves they could see on Lincoln's large, powerful hands."
Since my English is not that of of a native born, I wonder: what are "kid gloves" ? I suppose not gloves of a kid (one of AL's sons, or so), but gloves made of fine kid leather (soft leather gloves, goat leather gloves). Am I right? Please pardon my stupidity
(At his request) President Andrew Johnson was buried wrapped in a U.S. flag and with his well-worn copy of the Constitution under his head according to http://www.classroomhelp.com/lessons/Presidents/ajohnson.html
RE: about a flag and some relics - Eva Elisabeth - 01-02-2015 07:08 PM
Kees, you are right about the fine leather gloves, preferably made from the skin of young (thus kid) goats.
RE: about a flag and some relics - LincolnToddFan - 01-03-2015 11:19 PM
I was surprised and a little disturbed to read that AL was buried wearing gloves. By all accounts he hated wearing gloves and only wore them for fancy State occasions at Mary's insistence. And as soon as her back was turned he would remove them. At Ford's Theater on the fateful night of April 14th, he had taken off his gloves and shoved them into a pocket of his coat. They were later removed stained with blood that had trickled down his coat into his pocket after he was shot. They are in the Abraham Lincoln Library and Museum in Springfield. You can see them on Youtube being carefully displayed by curator James Cornelius.
But yes, he was indeed buried wearing fine French kid leather gloves. Edwin Stanton supervised the dressing of the remains and insisted upon it.
At his final exhumation and viewing in September 1901, they had mostly rotted away.
RE: about a flag and some relics - Jim Garrett - 01-04-2015 08:15 AM
Andrew Johnson was also wrapped in the American flag and his head rested upon a copy of the Constitution.