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+--- Thread: Aiken (/thread-19.html)
Aiken - Christine - 07-06-2012 12:36 PM
So, I just found in Baker's files a report on dear Freddie. I'm wondering if I should believe all of it?
Baker's claims:
"arrested him for destroying papers in Beauregard's headquarters at Manassas, pretending to be a detective acting under orders of Gen'l McClellan.
arrested him under orders of Gen'l McClellan as a spy while the army was in the Peninsula
arrested him for being concerned with Smith who kept a hotel at Point Lookout and who was in arrest for smuggling. Smith made affidavit that Aiken represented himself to be a detective, and promised that Smith should not be prosecuted for smuggling if he would give him a receipt for his board amounting to $60.00. (I do have another source about this - the arrest of Smith's wife and son)
represented himself falsely at the National Hotel, Washington, as a Government Detective
at Mannassas Baker took papers from him by force; official reports from Gen'l Evans, Bonham, and others to Beauregard."
This report begs a couple of questions: Why would Baker have been in Beauregard's headquarters at Mannassas?
Why would McClellan have Aiken stump for his election in the 1864 election if he really had him arrested in 1862 and believed he was a spy?
And the biggie: Why would the Military Tribunal not have attacked Aiken as disloyal during the trial and refused to allow him to defend Mary? I haven't read all of the trial testimony, but was he ever personally attacked (not his lawyering, but his politics?)
So, do I believe Baker, or not? I would LOVE your comments.
RE: Aiken - Gene C - 07-06-2012 03:03 PM
Sounds like some interesting research. What motive would Baker have in saying negative things about Aiken? Is there a date on Baker's report and how does it fit in with the timeline of for the battle at Mannassas and Beauregard? Take everything Baker says with a grain of salt. (make that a whole shaker of salt)
And...any sign or refference to Andrew Potter?
RE: Aiken - Laurie Verge - 07-06-2012 03:34 PM
I agree with Gene on taking Lafayette Baker with a heaping dose of salt. However, Baker worked as a double agent - I have suspected that Aiken might have also.
Christine has already found a letter from Pinkerton to Andrew Porter. I have always suspected that the Neff crowd got confused on the spelling of the last name.
Who's our expert on Lafayette Baker?
RE: Aiken - Rsmyth - 07-06-2012 04:13 PM
I think they totally invented Potter...no mistaking him for someone else.
RE: Aiken - Christine - 07-06-2012 08:19 PM
Who is Potter? Fold3 has the Turner Baker papers, so if anybody wants me to check for anybody else's files, let me know. They are pretty straightforward and easy to find (under Civil War, Subervision Investigations.)
What would Baker gain by accusing Aiken? I'm not sure - Aiken was working for Seward as a spy in the months before Manassas, so could he have simply been jealous? Or, as Laurie thinks, (which I'm inclined to also believe) was Frederick really 'double dipping' and playing both sides?
Aiken had correspondence with Seward in the fall of 1862, after he was supposedly arrested by order of McClellan (where would I find McClellan's papers and records to see if there is proof of that?)
But that still doesn't answer why the Military Tribunal (made up of Union Generals) would have allowed him to argue the case if he were known as an outright Confederate spy. After all, they weren't real thrilled with Reverdy, and all he had done was argue that it wasn't necessary to require loyalty pledges.
So, to those who know the testimony, did they ever attack Frederick as a spy? Weren't spies often hung? Why would he escape that fate unless there was some question about whose side he was on?
I checked the indexes on both Baker and Turner and here are the Porter, Potter cases:
(Baker) Porter, CP - Deserter; (Turner) Porter, GA, citizen, confined at Ft. Lafayette; Porter, Jack, citizen, arrested for disloyalty; Porter, Nicholas, confined in Old Capitol Prison; Potter, Noel J, charged with discouraging enlistments; Porter, P A; Col, concerning prisoners at Ft. McHenry; Porter, Joseph, citizen, in relation to premises at Key West; Porter, L F, confined at Prison ship at Alexa.; Potter, James D, major, E J Allen's report in case of; Porter, Andrew, General, charged with dining with a rebel - what! The Provost Marshall General of the Army of the Potomac (McClellan's 2nd in command during the Peninsula.) When they charged Frederick with spying. The very idea! In the words of our very own Laurie Verge "somebody has some 'splaining to do"
more from Turner Papers: Potter, Henry, citizen, papers in the case of; Potter, John, papers in the case of; Porter, Edward, seizure of trunk; Porter, George U, prisoner, confined at Ft. Layfayette;
you can also find an index of the Turner Baker papers on lincolnarchives
RE: Aiken - HerbS - 07-07-2012 10:33 AM
Christine,I feel the huge point for Aiken's character was his relationship with Seward!But,I still feel he is an Historical Enigma!
RE: Aiken - L Verge - 07-07-2012 05:36 PM
(07-07-2012 10:33 AM)HerbS Wrote: Christine,I feel the huge point for Aiken's character was his relationship with Seward!But,I still feel he is an Historical Enigma!
Christine - Ed Steers is the leading investigator on who the heck the Potter people were. He has found no evidence that they existed. The Potters indicated here are not the ones in question. The mythical ones (as far as we know are Andrew and another that this old brain can't recall the name of right now). They are the ones that Ray Neff hung his non-history degree on.
RE: Aiken - Gene C - 07-07-2012 07:16 PM
Christine - Andrew Potter supposedly worked for L Baker and was active in the pursuit of Booth. His writings and notes - the Potter Papers - formed part of the basis for the "The Lincoln Conspiracy", a movie in the late 70's. (John Wiles Booth escapes)
Ray Neff (a chemist turned histoiran who just recently passed away) was a stong believer in Andrew Potter and has a large collection of documents and photos at the Indiana State University Library (some of it is on-line). There is no credible evidence that anyone named Andrew Potter ever worked for Baker. Neff's documents consist of type written trancripts. He claimed the original documents were severly damaged when stored in a barn. There they were damaged by mice and pigeion droppings, and inclimate weather.
Ed Steers wrote a good article abouth these documents couple of years ago, but it is on my computer at work, or I would link to it now.
RE: Aiken - Lindsey - 07-11-2012 02:23 PM
The Potter brothers, I thought, had essentially been proven fictional by Steers. I'm thankful for it as I found an interview with one of Davey's sisters supposedly conducted by them. I was very excited about it until reading "Lincoln Legends."
Laurie--what's up with Baker being a double agent?
It's interesting how the way Aiken was portrayed in the movie is really pretty far removed from how he really was. After reading Christine's supurb bio of him so I could write a bit about him to read at the grave dedication I had a bit of trouble trying not to make him out to look like a traitor
RE: Aiken - Christine - 07-13-2012 01:59 PM
Lindsey, that's what makes him so interesting! All those contradictions - hero, traitor, spy for the Union, spy for the Rebels. . . . Who knows if we'll ever get the real story. But I do agree, he is a tad different from the movie's Freddie. But, even the Baker report is a bit contradictory - why would Baker arrest him in Beauregard's headquarters if he was destroying paper? Wouldn't that be a good thing for him to do? Why arrest him for taking reports of Beauregard's officers IF he was intending to give them to Union officers? How would Baker have known he wasn't, and, again, how did Baker gain entrance to the headquarters himself?
And, nobody answered if the tribunal ever accused Frederick of disloyalty? Does anyone know?
Another Aiken question: Do you think a Confederate officer would possess (and keep) a Union unit flag? I asked my husband if his Georgia/Alabama/North Carolina relatives would have kept something from the Union and he said that he would guess they would have burned it. Even his mom (who has lived most of her adult life out of the south) - has some hard feelings, especially towards Sherman. I just can't imagine her keeping anything that would have been attached to the conquering Northern Army.
A link to info about the Potter Papers: http://library.indstate.edu/about/units/rbsc/neff/neff-idx.html
RE: Aiken - Laurie Verge - 07-13-2012 03:54 PM
Christine,
I agree with everyone that Aiken is a totally confusing figure to try and analyze. I can't find a concrete thread that identifies him completely Union or Confederate. Could he have enlisted in the Union army because of the bounty that was being offered?
I have never seen a reference to the military commission challenging his loyalty; but based on what you have discovered, I sure would.
As for keeping an enemy's battle flag, I think there is a 50-50 possibility that he might -- largely depending upon whether or not it was a flag that his unit (or himself) was able to capture.
Herb calls Aiken an enigma, and I have to agree.
RE: Aiken - BettyO - 07-13-2012 03:55 PM
(07-13-2012 01:59 PM)Christine Wrote: Lindsey, that's what makes him so interesting! All those contradictions - hero, traitor, spy for the Union, spy for the Rebels. . . . Who knows if we'll ever get the real story. But I do agree, he is a tad different from the movie's Freddie. But, even the Baker report is a bit contradictory - why would Baker arrest him in Beauregard's headquarters if he was destroying paper? Wouldn't that be a good thing for him to do? Why arrest him for taking reports of Beauregard's officers IF he was intending to give them to Union officers? How would Baker have known he wasn't, and, again, how did Baker gain entrance to the headquarters himself?
And, nobody answered if the tribunal ever accused Frederick of disloyalty? Does anyone know?
Another Aiken question: Do you think a Confederate officer would possess (and keep) a Union unit flag? I asked my husband if his Georgia/Alabama/North Carolina relatives would have kept something from the Union and he said that he would guess they would have burned it. Even his mom (who has lived most of her adult life out of the south) - has some hard feelings, especially towards Sherman. I just can't imagine her keeping anything that would have been attached to the conquering Northern Army.
A link to info about the Potter Papers: http://library.indstate.edu/about/units/rbsc/neff/neff-idx.html
Interesting question, Christine. I know that the North kept a great many Confederate flags AND the Virginia State Flag which flew over the State Capitol Building in Richmond when it was evacuated! That was returned to Virginia about 20 years ago or so. A gentleman in New England had it and it had been in his family for years. His great-great grandfather had taken the flag when the Union army entered Richmond and ran up the Star Spangled Banner.
I could see a southern family perhaps keeping a Union flag which had been captured in battle by one of their ancestors. One never knows about these things --- but I certainly agree about Sherman. That fellow sure liked to play with matches!
I have a friend from Atlanta - and one doesn't mention Sherman's name in her presence!
RE: Aiken - L Verge - 07-13-2012 05:55 PM
Funny story related to Sherman: Starting at age 12, I was an Episcopal church organist for the next 26 years. Even though I knew it was a Yankee song, I have always loved the Battle Hymn of the Republic. So one 4th of July Sunday, I decided to play it as the postlude as people filed out of church.
As soon as he had greeted the last person, our priest came storming up the aisle and said, with teeth gritted, "Laurie, that is the last time you will ever play that song while I am in charge of this church!"
I was about 15 at the time and knew about the Civil War, but my mother later explained to me that the priest was born and raised in Georgia and that Sherman's men sang Mrs. Howe's song as they devastated the state.
I still love the song and get a tear in my eye when I hear it sung correctly.
RE: Aiken - Christine - 07-13-2012 06:22 PM
Laurie, your story made me smile. If you ask my mother-in-law about Sherman (she's from Columbus Georgia) she grits her teeth and shakes her finger, and sputters.
I love this version of Battle Hymn. I've been lucky enough to hear them sing in person several times. In fact, just yesterday I visited with one of the altos - we have a couple of friends who sing in the choir.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpZ3jPMM5Ac
This video of the Battle Hymn is touching; but be warned - it includes battle scenes - Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW 11, and Vietnam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFtNVEbasOo
Another gorgeous song that brings tears to my eyes - Shenandoah. I remember as a child one time coming home after school and the movie was on TV and my mom was just sitting watching with tears streaming down her cheeks. I always think of Jimmy Stewart when I hear this song and am reminded of the human toll of the Civil War on families.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNdgM11ZS4k&annotation_id=annotation_11868&src_vid=Jo8inMDBd8Q&feature=iv
A beautiful tribute to soldiers;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5T3wv9kvLw&feature=related
RE: Aiken - KLarson - 07-13-2012 09:26 PM
I have run across numerous examples of Union and Confederate
soldiers keeping flags and many, many other items that once belonged to
their enemies. This is true even today and these items are often referred
to as "trophies".
Aiken is certainly a mysterious character. I am so glad Christine
that you find him so fascinating because you have really made
him come alive - in all his complexity - for all of us!