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+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Payne's Statement? (/thread-1800.html)
Payne's Statement? - BettyO - 07-07-2014 06:21 AM
Some accounts state that Powell wrote a statement vindicating Mrs. Surratt - others that Annie visited him in the death cell and extracted a verbal statement from him.
According to the Boston Herald for July 8, 1865, "Payne wrote a statement in which he declares that Mrs. Surratt had no complicity in the assassination. A copy of this was furnished Judge Holt and another given to the friends of Mrs. Surratt."
If true, wonder what happened to this "handwritten statement?" It is not in the LAS papers as far as we know. It is known that Fathers Walter and Wiget went to Powell's cell, apparently with Annie and received the same verbal statements. Eckert also stated to Hartranft that Powell continued to plead for Mrs. Surratt.
I find these press reports of a handwritten statement intriguing and elusive....
RE: Payne's Statement? - Rsmyth - 07-07-2014 06:42 AM
I find that many of the early accounts of the assassination, even if embellished, have a ring of truth to them. Keep searching Betty!
RE: Payne's Statement? - BettyO - 07-07-2014 06:48 AM
I'm going to keep looking, Rich. I've heard that both verbal and written were given. I've also heard that Powell had given a written confession. This has been recorded at least twice and I've yet to find anything regarding it. I'm just hoping that there is more "lost" info out there - and yes ,I'll continue to look!
RE: Payne's Statement? - brtmchl - 07-07-2014 08:09 PM
I think you may find them under the missing Booth diary pages.
RE: Payne's Statement? - LincolnMan - 07-08-2014 05:47 AM
I can see why Judge Holt might want to not have the statement made public- after he condemned Mary!
RE: Payne's Statement? - BettyO - 07-08-2014 06:03 AM
Could be, Bill. It more or less could have "conveniently got lost"; i.e. destroyed.....
RE: Payne's Statement? - Craig Hipkins - 07-08-2014 06:57 AM
I wonder if a copy could be found among Judge Holt's papers? I'll bet there is a ton of stuff out there that remains to be uncovered (Including the missing diary pages)
Craig
RE: Payne's Statement? - BettyO - 07-08-2014 07:15 AM
There is...I'm sure. We have to dig and find it -
RE: Payne's Statement? - L Verge - 07-08-2014 08:56 AM
There is reference to David Herold writing a confession during recesses in the court. I have always wondered what happened to that.
RE: Payne's Statement? - STS Lincolnite - 07-08-2014 08:04 PM
Betty, based on what you have seen, was what Powell wrote a confession (to me, a broader term that would more likely have a greater amount of detail about the kidnapping/assassination plot as a whole) or just a simple statement vindicating Mrs. Surratt?
In my view of Powell, I would think what he wrote would be more likely to have been a direct statement relating to Mrs. Surratt. I'm not sure Powell, usually described as tight lipped, would suddenly write out a full confession. Doesn't seem like he would "rat out" anyone else.
I know from Elizabeth Leonard's book, Lincoln's Forgotten Ally, Judge Advocate General Joseph Holt of Kentucky, there are several repositories that hold Judge Holt's papers.
In regards to Herold's written confession, are there any repositories of the papers of Frederick Stone?
RE: Payne's Statement? - brtmchl - 07-08-2014 09:30 PM
I think as a soldier Powell may have written out the details pertaining to his own involvement. Never giving names about others involved. If one believed, which I do not, that Ms. Surratt was innocent, I believe as a soldier Powell would have eagerly tried to vindicate her. As a man in those times, I also believe, regardless of her guilt, Powell would have been chivalrous. Protecting a Southern Woman to the end. It could have been a combination of the two. Powell may have felt that Mary, while involved, wasn't part of the actual physical deed and didn't deserve the same fate. regardless, even though quiet natured, I believe a statement trying to help Mary is exactly within Powell's nature.
RE: Payne's Statement? - RJNorton - 07-09-2014 03:56 AM
I have always wondered exactly how much Powell actually knew regarding Mary. I think there was some indication that he knew that Mary had knowledge of the kidnap plot, but did he even know about her April 11th and 14th trips to Surrattsville? Had Powell ever met John Lloyd?
RE: Payne's Statement? - BettyO - 07-09-2014 04:50 AM
Quote:There is reference to David Herold writing a confession during recesses in the court. I have always wondered what happened to that.
Laurie -
I have a "voluntary statement" given by Herold - but I don't know if this is the same one or not.....I don't think so, because it isn't written in Herold's hand as far as I know..... I've tried to upload it, but it's too large to send across....it just says "Voluntary Statement of David Herold."
Supposedly Powell was also writing one at or near the same time, according to various sources.
Quote:Betty, based on what you have seen, was what Powell wrote a confession (to me, a broader term that would more likely have a greater amount of detail about the kidnapping/assassination plot as a whole) or just a simple statement vindicating Mrs. Surratt?
In my view of Powell, I would think what he wrote would be more likely to have been a direct statement relating to Mrs. Surratt. I'm not sure Powell, usually described as tight lipped, would suddenly write out a full confession. Doesn't seem like he would "rat out" anyone else.
I know from Elizabeth Leonard's book, Lincoln's Forgotten Ally, Judge Advocate General Joseph Holt of Kentucky, there are several repositories that hold Judge Holt's papers.
In regards to Herold's written confession, are there any repositories of the papers of Frederick Stone?
I think that this particular statement was completely involving Mrs. Surratt's innocence. I also believe, like Mike says, that Powell, was chivalrous (as he was described by General William H. Payne and others) towards women and would have attempted to vindicate Mrs. Surratt, guilty or not. It's also said that he told Dr. Gillette "If I had no other reason, Doctor, [to vindicate Mrs. Surratt] Mrs. Surratt is a woman; and men do not make war on women." I also think that he saw Mrs. Surratt as a mother figure, and Powell, who literally adored his mom, was also thinking of his own mother at this time, according to Gillette.
Quote:I have always wondered exactly how much Powell actually knew regarding Mary. I think there was some indication that he knew that Mary had knowledge of the kidnap plot, but did he even know about her April 11th and 14th trips to Surrattsville? Had Powell ever met John Lloyd?
Roger, according to one report I've seen, Surratt and Powell were talking in the parlor when Mrs. Surratt walked in on them. Powell had made an open remark regarding the kidnapping venture, loud enough for Mrs. Surratt to overhear at which time Surratt pulled Powell out into the hallway and told him to "Hush! Never speak of that in the presence of my mother. She doesn't know and should not know." Accordingly Powell later told Gillette that she "may have known something, but he didn't know how much."
As far as I know, Powell did not know Lloyd and did not know anything about her trips to Surrattsville to "conduct "business."
RE: Payne's Statement? - MaddieM - 07-12-2014 08:11 PM
(07-09-2014 04:50 AM)BettyO Wrote:Quote:There is reference to David Herold writing a confession during recesses in the court. I have always wondered what happened to that.
Laurie -
I have a "voluntary statement" given by Herold - but I don't know if this is the same one or not.....I don't think so, because it isn't written in Herold's hand as far as I know..... I've tried to upload it, but it's too large to send across....it just says "Voluntary Statement of David Herold."
Supposedly Powell was also writing one at or near the same time, according to various sources.
Quote:Betty, based on what you have seen, was what Powell wrote a confession (to me, a broader term that would more likely have a greater amount of detail about the kidnapping/assassination plot as a whole) or just a simple statement vindicating Mrs. Surratt?
In my view of Powell, I would think what he wrote would be more likely to have been a direct statement relating to Mrs. Surratt. I'm not sure Powell, usually described as tight lipped, would suddenly write out a full confession. Doesn't seem like he would "rat out" anyone else.
I know from Elizabeth Leonard's book, Lincoln's Forgotten Ally, Judge Advocate General Joseph Holt of Kentucky, there are several repositories that hold Judge Holt's papers.
In regards to Herold's written confession, are there any repositories of the papers of Frederick Stone?
I think that this particular statement was completely involving Mrs. Surratt's innocence. I also believe, like Mike says, that Powell, was chivalrous (as he was described by General William H. Payne and others) towards women and would have attempted to vindicate Mrs. Surratt, guilty or not. It's also said that he told Dr. Gillette "If I had no other reason, Doctor, [to vindicate Mrs. Surratt] Mrs. Surratt is a woman; and men do not make war on women." I also think that he saw Mrs. Surratt as a mother figure, and Powell, who literally adored his mom, was also thinking of his own mother at this time, according to Gillette.
Quote:I have always wondered exactly how much Powell actually knew regarding Mary. I think there was some indication that he knew that Mary had knowledge of the kidnap plot, but did he even know about her April 11th and 14th trips to Surrattsville? Had Powell ever met John Lloyd?
Roger, according to one report I've seen, Surratt and Powell were talking in the parlor when Mrs. Surratt walked in on them. Powell had made an open remark regarding the kidnapping venture, loud enough for Mrs. Surratt to overhear at which time Surratt pulled Powell out into the hallway and told him to "Hush! Never speak of that in the presence of my mother. She doesn't know and should not know." Accordingly Powell later told Gillette that she "may have known something, but he didn't know how much."
As far as I know, Powell did not know Lloyd and did not know anything about her trips to Surrattsville to "conduct "business."
And yet didn't she visit Powell at the Herndon House Hotel?
RE: Payne's Statement? - BettyO - 07-12-2014 09:16 PM
Maddie -
According to Weichmann, yes she did. And for a lady to go up to a young gentleman's room was very unseemly in the Victorian era. I'm sure she wasn't just paying a visit to see that he was being well treated at the establishment. So - she knew something was up, whether carrying messages or whatever!