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A.Johnson or J.Holt-? Who do you believe? - HerbS - 05-13-2014 06:39 PM
In the past 3 weeks I have been collecting- Authentic-Newspapers about The Lincoln Assassination.In the"NY-Times"11-19-1873-there was a very interesting story about Pres.Johnson and Judge Holt and the hanging of Mary Surratt.Johnson claims that Holt never showed him Mary Surratt's appeal.Holt claims that he did show him.Whom do you believe?Johnson says,"It has been 8yrs since the hangings,why does Holt break his silence now?"
RE: A.Johnson or J.Holt-? Who do you believe? - L Verge - 05-13-2014 07:01 PM
I have tried my best over the years to avoid this controversy, but I believe that Holt told Johnson about the clemency plea, but did not specifically point it out and show him where to sign if he wished to support it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were several other people in the room who later said that it was mentioned to Johnson?
Remember that, if the plea had been agreed to, it still did not concern the lady's guilt or innocence - only a "humane" recommendation based on her age and sex.
RE: A.Johnson or J.Holt-? Who do you believe? - LincolnToddFan - 05-14-2014 01:34 AM
(05-13-2014 06:39 PM)HerbS Wrote: In the past 3 weeks I have been collecting- Authentic-Newspapers about The Lincoln Assassination.In the"NY-Times"11-19-1873-there was a very interesting story about Pres.Johnson and Judge Holt and the hanging of Mary Surratt.Johnson claims that Holt never showed him Mary Surratt's appeal.Holt claims that he did show him.Whom do you believe?Johnson says,"It has been 8yrs since the hangings,why does Holt break his silence now?"
My hunch says to believe Holt. Annie Surratt was screaming and shrieking outside Johnson's office the morning of the execution. Are we to believe the president didn't hear her?
His famous comment about the widow Surratt keeping the nest that hatched the egg seemed to be his way of justifying his decision to allow the execution to proceed.
RE: A.Johnson or J.Holt-? Who do you believe? - Thomas Thorne - 05-14-2014 07:43 AM
I recall reading stories that the Mary Surratt mercy recommendation was in contemporary press accounts.
Holt met with Johnson for 3 hours to discuss the sentences of the conspirators. It is hard to conceive that all aspects of the issue of the US government executing a woman for the first time did not come up.
Johnson's statement that the trouble with the Civil War was the failure to hang enough women is very revealing. His subsequent attempts to side with public opinion which turned against Mary Surratt's hanging after the fact is not very convincing. Running for office as he did after his presidency, he was none too eager to advertise his earlier fascination with hanging. Remember Johnson's statement "Treason is a crime and must be made odious."
I am not a Joseph Holt fan by any means but I can't buy the idea that he withheld the commutation recommendation from Johnson.
Tom
RE: A.Johnson or J.Holt-? Who do you believe? - Linda Anderson - 05-14-2014 08:17 AM
Frank J. Williams, a former Chief Justice of the Rhode Island Supreme Court, writes in his essay, "The Lincoln Assassination in Law and Lore" from The Lincoln Assassination, Crime and Punishment, Myth and Memory:
"In two military trials before July 1865, Holt had specifically included in his comments accompanying the records sent to the president information that the commissions had found the defendants guilty but had also recommended clemency. Holt's note to President Johnson dealing with the convictions of the Lincoln conspirators, however, urged the president to approve the findings of the court, saying nothing of the recommendation of clemency on behalf of Mrs. Surratt...
"Nothing was said of the petition for clemency. Holt later insisted that he had included the petition with the record of the trial when he delivered the documents to the president. Johnson claimed that he never saw that petition. But whether or not Holt included the request for clemency, he should have informed the president of that fact in his covering statement, as he had done on previous occasions. His failure to do so was a serious dereliction of duty."
RE: A.Johnson or J.Holt-? Who do you believe? - RJNorton - 05-14-2014 09:04 AM
(05-13-2014 07:01 PM)L Verge Wrote: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were several other people in the room who later said that it was mentioned to Johnson?
My aging brain may be playing tricks with me, but I thought I read somewhere that the clemency petition had been discussed either in a Cabinet meeting or by Cabinet members. It's hard for me to believe Johnson on this.
RE: A.Johnson or J.Holt-? Who do you believe? - HerbS - 05-14-2014 09:16 AM
In the- NY-Times-article,Holt claims that Att-Gen-Speed was there as his as his witness.Johnson claims they were alone.In Johnson's Biography,his Biographer[Dr.Albert Castel] feels that people felt that,"If Johnson were a snake-he would lie in the grass and bite the legs of children as they ran by".
In the "NY-Times" article.Johnson felt that Stanton was involved in the"cover-up"! Wasn't it Stanton who worked so hard to have Johnson Impeached?So, 8yrs later,Johnson still had a dislike for Stanton.Now,knowing what Johnson's personality was like-Whom do we believe?
RE: A.Johnson or J.Holt-? Who do you believe? - Gene C - 05-14-2014 09:50 AM
Even if Holt did not point out the clemmenancy plea, President Johnson had the authority and plenty of opportunity to save Mrs Surratt from the gallows.
I agree with LincolnToddFan and Thomas Thorne's comments.