Quote:Have you ever thought that since the first week after Gettysburg, now more than a year, I have never been alluded to in public journals except to abuse and vilify me? And why this is I have never been able to imagine. Grant and Sherman are puffed up in periodicals, but it cannot be argued that either of them has achieved success against a foe remotely comparable to Lee. No other commander has so mauled and baffled the famous Lee, a task which my army continues even now, with Grant taking all the credit of course.

Who after all is Beauregard, and what are Pemberton and Bragg? True, Grant has a certain plodding tenacity and a disregard for withdrawal and defeat. Such words, along with temperance and grace, are not within his lexicon. As for Sherman, he is opposed by a man indelicately referred to by some as “Slow Joe”, against whom I venture even Butler would shine. Were it not for an accident at Pittsburgh Landing, which removed the adequate rebel General A. S. Johnston at the very moment he was sweeping them both from the field, our two lions would today be roaring even further to the west, escorting government incompetents to defraud the Indian tribes.

Whatever is said today, you can be sure that time and history will vindicate my reputation. Future generations will debate the facts of our various campaigns with dispassion. They cannot fail to acknowledge that Grant and Sherman, measured against lesser foes, are not at all of the same quality as the victor at Gettysburg. Indeed, if Lee is lauded as the finest general of the Confederacy, and yet it is my army that drives his to its death, then there is only one candidate for recognition as the preeminent commander of this entire rebellion.

Quote:I don't know much about Lincoln's relationship with Meade - almost none, I imagine - but unlike McDowell, McClellan, Pope, Burnside and Hooker, he was neither fired, removed nor resigned for reasons of failure. Lincoln stuck with him, and that's worth a lot.

(10-29-2013 07:55 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Hi Peter, do you (or someone else) know if Gen. Meade ever met A. Lincoln personally?

(10-29-2013 09:25 AM)brtmchl Wrote:  

(10-29-2013 07:55 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Hi Peter, do you (or someone else) know if Gen. Meade ever met A. Lincoln personally?

Eva,

Headquarters Army of the Potomac
June 21, 1864

To Mrs. George G. Meade

My last letter was written on the 17th, during the battle, which lasted off and on from 4 o'clock on the afternoon of the 16th to dark of the 18th, day and night. Hearing of this struggle, Mr. Lincoln honored the army with his presence outside Petersburg this afternoon, and was so gracious as to say he had seen you in Philadelphia

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From a personal letter to his wife. The remaining portion of the letter goes on to say that Meade saw a portion of the President's speech and made some comments to Grant. Grant in turn telegraphed these statements to Lincoln, taking credit. Grant claims that he gave full credit to Meade, but the telegraph operator made the mistake.

(10-29-2013 07:55 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Hi Peter, do you (or someone else) know if Gen. Meade ever met A. Lincoln personally?

(10-29-2013 06:49 AM)Rob Wick Wrote:  I've always believed that had Grant not been put at the head of the Union armies, Meade likely would have eventually been fired like the others. It seems to me Meade was lucky that Lincoln didn't fire him after Gettysburg. Whether that firing would have been justified or not is arguable, but Lincoln's frustration with Meade was palpable.

(10-30-2013 06:03 AM)MajGenl.Meade Wrote:  Oh dear - I'm so sorry - you are quoting one of the Meade letters that I made up! The Bold parts below are genuine Meade on that date. The sword voting numbers come from another letter, and the telegrapher mixup was my own creation, reading:

I have seen a report of the President’s speech at the Fair in which he mistakenly quotes Grant as saying he will fight on this line if it takes all summer. You may be unsurprised to learn that it was I, and not Grant, who first gave such determined voice to this martial strategy. It appears that Grant sent it by telegraph to Washington, with full credit to me, not himself, intending the President should use it in his speech at the Fair to honor Philadelphia’s greatest warrior son.

Grant gives it as his belief that the telegrapher confused the morse signal for Meade with that for Grant, M E being dash dash, then dot whereas the G is dash dash dot, etc. He will take care soon to correct the record for the sake of history, by which assurance I am most gratified.

(10-29-2013 09:25 AM)brtmchl Wrote:  

(10-29-2013 07:55 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Hi Peter, do you (or someone else) know if Gen. Meade ever met A. Lincoln personally?

Eva,

Headquarters Army of the Potomac
June 21, 1864

To Mrs. George G. Meade

My last letter was written on the 17th, during the battle, which lasted off and on from 4 o'clock on the afternoon of the 16th to dark of the 18th, day and night. Hearing of this struggle, Mr. Lincoln honored the army with his presence outside Petersburg this afternoon, and was so gracious as to say he had seen you in Philadelphia

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From a personal letter to his wife. The remaining portion of the letter goes on to say that Meade saw a portion of the President's speech and made some comments to Grant. Grant in turn telegraphed these statements to Lincoln, taking credit. Grant claims that he gave full credit to Meade, but the telegraph operator made the mistake.

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(10-29-2013 07:55 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Hi Peter, do you (or someone else) know if Gen. Meade ever met A. Lincoln personally?

Hello Eva

Aside from June 21 1864, Meade and Lincoln met at least three other times

April 1863 he was part of a dinner that included: The President and Mrs. Lincoln, Mr. Bates, Secretary of the Interior, a Dr. Henry, of Colorado, who accompanied the President, Mrs. Stoneman, wife of Major General Stoneman, besides the corps commanders and felt highly pleased that Lincoln made a point to visit his camp the next day

Sept 8 1864 in Washington City he spent 30 mins with Lincoln and 4 hours with Stanton “Both were very affable, apparently very glad to see me, and said many flattering things”

March 26, 1865 he escorted Lincoln on a tour of the front line "Mrs. Lincoln spoke very handsomely of you and referred in feeling terms to our sad bereavement. The President also spoke of you, and expressed regret that your visit should have been so abruptly terminated"

After Grant arrived, it was rather his place to meet the President than Meade's.

Cheers
Peter

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(10-29-2013 06:49 AM)Rob Wick Wrote:  I've always believed that had Grant not been put at the head of the Union armies, Meade likely would have eventually been fired like the others. It seems to me Meade was lucky that Lincoln didn't fire him after Gettysburg. Whether that firing would have been justified or not is arguable, but Lincoln's frustration with Meade was palpable.

Thanks Rob. Agreed on Lincoln's frustration! You theorise that Halleck would have done the firing on Lincoln's behalf at some point thereafter? Mind you, he survived Mine Run (where his plan was good but the execution by the corps commanders was atrocious)....

Grant was, as you say, the overall commander of Union armies under Lincoln and he chose to move with the Army of the Potomac. He in fact had the opportunity to replace the AOP commander and put in one of his favourites - he declined to do so and Meade stayed. So from that perspective, perhaps you are correct indeed.

Cheers
Peter

(10-30-2013 08:32 AM)brtmchl Wrote:  Peter, I didn't realize that the site I was on was yours. I liked it very much. I love reading the memoirs and letters from the actual people. It gives a whole different perspective. I read many letters and plan on returning to read more. You have given me a new perspective on Meade.
There was one letter I found particularly funny and also sad

(10-30-2013 08:07 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Mike and Peter - thanks to both of you. Is it a very stupid question to ask what that sword contest (vote) was?