Herold and Surratt - Printable Version

Herold and Surratt - Printable Version

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Herold and Surratt - BettyO - 10-10-2013 06:09 AM

Yesterday afternoon, I found an interesting deposition in the LAS file regarding Herold and John Surratt which I had never seen before. It states that Surratt was seen in DC with Herold "eating oysters" at a restaurant about 4 PM on the evening of the 14th of April.

Here is the grist of what was written verbatim:

Cover Sheet:

Washington DC, 25, April, 1865

Rosch C. H. reports that George W. Nokes, Forrest Queen, French Queen were hunting companions of David E. Herold and that they went frequently to the residences of Messrs: Burch, Ward and Jenkins.

Mr. French Queen saw Herold and Surratt on horseback April 14, 1865 together.

Same day a man (Surratt or Powell?) called "Colan" had oysters with Herold at Steele's.

Attaches a specimen of Herold's handwriting.

Letter/Report:

Washington DC 25th April, 1865

Officer C. H. Rosch, makes the following report:

George W. Nokes
"House - Folding - Room"
Capitol Building

Forrest Queen and his brother, French Queen - 604 8th Street

The above were in the habit of hunting with David E. Herold.

They frequently went to

Burch's (who has a tavern now at Annapolis), Ward's, Jenkins' which are east of the Capitol.

French Queen saw Herold and Surratt 4 1/2 PM April 14, 1865 on horseback coming from the vicinity of Herold's house and going towards the city.

Previously Herold and a man named Colan, dressed like a farmer, had oysters at Steel's Saloon corner of 8th and (blank) Street, near the Navy Yard. This was the same day April 14, 1865. Colan had been seen in Herold's company three days previously.

From the log of F. T. Walsh, Druggist, 8th Street, Officer Rosch learned that Herold had sympathized with the South, but young Walsh would not repeat the expressions which Herold used.

At Pope's Stable, a colored boy said that Herold purchased a pony gig (small buggy) in '64 and sold it about March 4, 1865 - to whom the boy does not know, though he could identify him.

C. H. Rosch

(Copy of Herold's Signature)

Herold is known to be strongly attached to a horse, gun and a dog; not devoted to ladies especially.

Young Walsh says Surratt hair is very light.

CHR

Just took a look through both 1864 and 1860 Boyd's Directory of Washington DC (the 1865 issue is scarce) -

I found NO mention of a Burch's Saloon under "Restaurants", "Porter-Houses" or "Saloons"; but DID find a Birch's Restaurant in the 1860 Boyd's - surprisingly, nothing in 1864! Likewise, no mention of a Steele's Saloon!

The deposition of Rosch can be viewed here.

RE: Herold and Surratt - RJNorton - 10-10-2013 06:54 AM

This is fascinating, Betty! I know the government tried very hard to show John Surratt was in Washington on the 14th. So my first question would be why French Queen was not called as a prosecution witness at Surratt's trial in 1867.

RE: Herold and Surratt - BettyO - 10-10-2013 07:03 AM

It's very interesting - as it seems that Surratt (or someone who looked like him) was in DC on the 14th.... Lt. Van der Pool who testified at the Surratt trial that he saw all of the boys at the Canterbury on the evening of the 14th also stated that Surratt was there with Booth, Herold, Powell and Atzerodt. So.....Surratt MAY have been in DC - who knows? It's all part of the mystery....

RE: Herold and Surratt - Jim Garrett - 10-10-2013 07:59 AM

Do you think the government might have trying to lead witnesses to say they saw Surratt or someone who looked like Surratt?

RE: Herold and Surratt - BettyO - 10-10-2013 08:08 AM

It could have been, Jim. It's all speculation of course - but that Queen guy seems to have known Surratt as having "light hair."

Remember that Van der Poole claimed that he saw all of the boys at the Canterbury on the evening of April 14; including Surratt. He described them all. The Gardner sisters were playing at the Canterbury (rabid Southerners, ladies of questionable virtue as well as dance hall girls.) Mary Gardner's card with her hotel room number was later found in Powell's discarded coat pocket. She was arrested (never called for testimony) and later released. So it's a good bet that the gang was probably more or less at the Canterbury at some time.

Just my thoughts....

RE: Herold and Surratt - L Verge - 10-10-2013 10:49 AM

This is putting Southern Maryland names in Washington, D.C. Can we check 1860 Federal Census records for Charles County, Maryland, to see if Forrest Queen and French Queen are listed as related to Dr. William Queen - the first contact Booth made upon coming to Bryantown?

Dominic Burch ran the Bryantown Tavern in 1864. Wonder if that's the Burch that Davey hunted with? Also, there were Burches who lived about two miles south of Surrattsville, Wards who lived about two miles southwest of Surrattsville, and John Surratt's uncles (Zadoc and Archibald Jenkins) who lived about two miles northeast of Surrattsville.

I'm inclined to think along the same lines as Jim: Mr. Nokes is being led in his statement.

RE: Herold and Surratt - BettyO - 10-10-2013 11:42 AM

Here is the 1880 Census for Forrest Queen and family:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

1880 Census for William Queen and family:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Until I can dig deeper - I can't see a relationship (doesn't mean that there isn't one - good probability that there is.....)

RE: Herold and Surratt - L Verge - 10-10-2013 12:55 PM

"Our" William Queen would be long dead by 1880. He died before the assassination. We need to see the 1860 census for Charles County, Maryland, to see who his children were. My suspicion is that this 1880 census reflects his grandchildren, who have given up farm life and moved to the city for jobs.

My point in relation to the statement you found is that the names listed therein are all ones that could be found on a list of Southern Maryland planters or secessionists who would oppose Lincoln's policies. Therefore, they can be tied to Herold and Surratt.

RE: Herold and Surratt - BettyO - 10-10-2013 01:38 PM

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here is the 1860 Census.....

Testimony of "M. Herold" - either his mother or sister regarding Herold's visiting the "Burches" in PG County -

RE: Herold and Surratt - Anita - 10-10-2013 07:22 PM

Betty, I found a listing in Boyd's 1864 directory under: Steel, James, restaurant, 528 N J ave, h, do
http://archive.org/stream/boydswashingtong1864wash#page/254/mode/2up

[attachment=246]

In the second letter of your first post "Steel" is spelled without the "e" on the end. " Previously Herold and a man named Colan, dressed like a farmer, had oysters at Steel's Saloon corner of 8th and (blank) Street, near the Navy Yard."

RE: Herold and Surratt - BettyO - 10-10-2013 08:54 PM

Thanks, Anita!

I totally missed that. Good job!

RE: Herold and Surratt - Anita - 10-10-2013 09:53 PM

(10-10-2013 08:54 PM)BettyO Wrote: Thanks, Anita!

I totally missed that. Good job!

I was so excited when I found it! I'm not familiar with DC streets but from what I can tell on Google Maps, this appears to be right in the right area- Navy yard.

You may have something here!

RE: Herold and Surratt - SSlater - 10-10-2013 11:33 PM

Betty O. Here are some findings in the 1865 City Dir. for Wash. D.C. As you know - this includes Wash. + Georgetown and Alexandria. If a name does not show, he may be nearby in MD.

George W. Nokes None
Jenkins' None
Steel's Resturant 632 8th East Street Cor. GA (Georgia) Ave
Res. L South 4th STreet
David E. Herold Bds. 636 8th East
W/ Mrs A. B. Herold
Others:
Edwin M. Stanton Hon. Secc War h 320 K North
Baker, L.C. Col. Special Agent, War Dept. 217 PA Ave.
Res. L 263 G North
Of Interest: Lincoln $25000 / annum
Hamlin (VP), Seward, Stanton, Wells $8000/annum (each)

I can't fit the pages onto my screen in a manner suitable for printing, but if you need a particular address, let me know.
PS. Baker does not show in the list of War Dept. employees.
also , there is no listing for any Surratts

Reproduction of Steel's RestaJurant ad
[b]STEEL'S RESTURANT
632 EIGHT EAST STREET, Cor. GA. Ave.
WASHINGTON, D.C.
The undersigned would inform his numerous friends, and the public, that he has completed extensive improvements to the above old established stand and now feels confident that for elegance and convenience it will be found second to none in the City. s heretofore, everything usually kept in a well-regulated Restaurant will be found in the greatest abundance, and always of the first quality.
[/b] JAMES STEEL , Proprietor.

RE: Herold and Surratt - RJNorton - 10-11-2013 05:00 AM

My eyes have trouble with the census, Betty. I do not see French Queen listed. (?) Is it possible he died before Surratt's trial in 1867? I cannot believe Edwards Pierrepont would not have called him to testify as Queen's eyewitness statement certainly would have bolstered the prosecution's case that Surratt was in Washington, not Elmira, on April 14, 1865. Is there a way of finding out if French Queen died before the trial?

RE: Herold and Surratt - BettyO - 10-11-2013 05:14 AM

I will forward you the census records, Roger. Some of them are very faint - unfortunately, this is one of them - "French" doesn't show up in one of them - unless it was a nickname for something else....Odd name anyway -