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+--- Thread: Throwing more Mudd in the game (/thread-1182.html)
Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-23-2013 10:49 AM
As many of you know, I have a personal theory (that will likely always remain a theory) that Booth and Herold intended all along to head to Dr. Mudd for shelter - broken leg or no broken leg. His home was isolated, it was within a decent distance of hard riding to rest horses in a protected stable with hired hands to help, and Dr. Mudd was known to them as well as to others along the escape route. His services - medical or non-medical - were useful to the fugitives.
I have based my theory solely upon the fact that Herold was in Southern Maryland on April 13 (and possibly the afternoon of the 12th) and could very likely have been passing the word that something big was coming down pdq.
I have taken some very hard slaps from certain people (not on this forum yet) for my beliefs. Since I continue to get slapped, I am going to throw extra Mudd into the game - and I hope that Bob Summers (who runs an excellent website on his ancestor, Dr. Mudd, will chime in). The questions and statements below are strictly things that have run through my mind over the years, and I can give no citations whatsoever and freely admit that.
I remember years ago being surprised when I read that Dr. and Mrs. Mudd were in a downstairs bedroom when the knock came on the door. It was certainly an age-old custom for the master bedroom to be at the front of the house so that one had a view of who was coming up the driveway. In a two-storey house, that room was usually upstairs.
It would also be unusual for the mistress of the house to be sleeping downstairs when she had infant children upstairs. The Mudds had been married in 1859, I believe, and had four children at the time of the assassination - one of which was a baby. Did the children all sleep in the back bedroom upstairs as currently shown in the museum? Did they have a nanny (especially since one was an infant) who slept with them? The Mudd slaves had been freed, but there were two young orphan girls who continued to live there, and the Mudds hired some others. Do we know who a nanny might have been - if they had one?
Four children, their belongings and toys, and a full-sized bed for a nanny made for a cramped room, I would imagine. Why was there (conveniently for Booth) a large, spare bedroom awaiting anyone who wandered to the door in the middle of the night? The third room on the upstairs was the doctor's office. If there was no nanny, why didn't Dr. and Mrs. Mudd sleep in a room adjoining the children's room? Or, did they usually sleep there and "just happen" to be sleeping downstairs in order to keep that room vacant for awhile?
And then there is the issue of Dr. Mudd supposedly asking his wife to go to the door when the knock came around 4 am on April 15. No decent lady of the day would be asked to open the door to strangers while still in night attire - and robes counted as night attire! Also, the doctor testified that there was fear about the guerrilla Boyle and others roaming the countryside. So you ask your wife to open the door?
As the youngsters would say, "I'm just saying...". I have no grudge against the Mudds (even though I have been accused of it by certain people). They were kindred spirits with my ancestors at that time and held the same beliefs and came from the same social level as my ancestors and were in the same age bracket. They did what they felt was right for their way of life at that time -- despite those who hold that they were evil because they owned slaves and feared a large, centralized government.
As I said, these are strictly questions that have crossed my mind that I am sharing in hopes of getting feedback. Just give me historical feedback, not slaps across the face, please!
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - RJNorton - 09-23-2013 12:41 PM
I am trusting George Atzerodt's word with this post.
Atzerodt said, "I am certain Dr. Mudd knew all about it, as Booth sent (as he told me) liquors & provisions for the trip with the President to Richmond, about two weeks before the murder to Dr. Mudd's."
I am assuming this to mean a stop was planned at Mudd's after Lincoln was kidnapped.
If they had seemingly planned to stop at Mudd's after kidnapping Lincoln why wouldn't they also intend to stop there after killing him?
Do we know if Booth and Herold left Mudd's with any "extra stuff" they didn't have when they arrived?
P.S. Laurie, Bob Summers is away from his computer, but on his website there is an interview with Sarah Frances Mudd in which she says:
"There was no one in our home that night except the Doctor, myself, the children and the children’s nurse, a white girl named Nancy Tilly. The children and the nurse were not awakened by the arrival of these visitors."
http://www.samuelmudd.com/2111909-mrs-mudds-last-interview.html
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - KateH. - 09-23-2013 01:07 PM
As someone who has also come under the fire of verbal slapping after expressing an opinion, I understand the pain. You are not saying, "This is what happened. End of story." You are merely sharing a theory in the hopes of beginning a historical discussion. That is how history works. Everyone debates ideas and shares knowledge in the hopes of coming to a good conclusion about something we were not alive to witness. We can't read the thoughts of those involved in Lincoln's assassination. The best we can do is study and present a historical argument. Not every question will have a 100% certain answer. However, by working together, we can sometimes get pretty darn close.
Anyway, you present a very convincing argument, Laurie. The behavior of the Mudd family seems to be questionable considering the "social codes" of the time period and the post-war events that were taking place.
Let me also add this point. Mudd did allow Booth and Herold to stay for the night. Although Herold was hurrying along the medical procedure, Mudd did not finish the job and direct his guests to another place of lodging or wave goodbye because Herold said they needed to get moving. This would happen to Booth and Herold quite a few times later though. Whether Mudd gave them shelter to be kind or because he was unaware Booth had assassinated the president will never be known. However, he did permit them to stay the night and through the next afternoon. He knew of other southern sympathizers-he told Booth a few names before he departed-and could have sent the pair further on. Did he let them stay because he already knew they were going to appear on his doorstep?
Furthermore, I agree that the Mudd family was not "evil." They sympathized with the Confederacy but that does not make them cruel people. Sometimes we forget that the South was fighting for their way of life too. Just because the North won in the end doesn't mean southerners were "bad" people. They simply had different ideas. Today, there are plenty of groups that have ideas different from others. That doesn't mean one side is better. Speaking on the issue of slavery, today we know how horrible it was. However, before and during the Civil War, it was an accepted practice. That would never be said today but we have to look at the situation through the eyes of people living in the 19th century.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - NJREB1863 - 09-23-2013 07:27 PM
My question about whether Dr. Mudd expected visitors that night or very shortly thereafter revolves around when Booth discovered he had an opportunity to assassinate Lincoln which was not until around midday on the 14th. Herold in his travels on the 12th/13th, would not have known of a specific date to assassinate and at that time it doesn't seem that any known opportunities to kidnap were available to the conspirators either. So im not convinced Mudd was on the watch for Booth and Herold that night.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - jonathan - 09-23-2013 10:04 PM
Shame on anyone who would give those slaps in the face. To me, those seem like perfectly valid questions to ask, and a perfectly valid theory. Doesn't mean you're right, but you might be. Is that not how we arrive at the truth, or at least a consensus, by asking those kinds of questions, by considering every possibility and mixing it all together with known facts, then talking about it for 150 years?? I've read a lot different opinions on the assassination, and have yet to ridicule any of them. I may have a little laugh at some of the more outlandish one's, but it just seems like ridiculing an opinion is to declare that I know it all. I do not.
As far as Mudd goes, one of the biggest things for me is exactly what a couple of you said already…I don't necessarily thing they were bad people. They may have been, I don't really know. You can read about them and form an opinion either way depending on what you're reading. I just think they were doing what they thought was best for them. We can look at it now and see some things they might have gotten wrong, but every one of us can look back on our own lives and do the same thing.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - SSlater - 09-23-2013 11:15 PM
Laurie. Booth left Mudd's with a CRUTCH, that he had not planned on needing.
Booth's original escape route was planned to run father west - down the Bumpy Oak Road, to Port Tobacco and the Nanjemoy. So, a stop at Mudd's was not planned. Booth went to Mudd's because he knew Mudd. He knew he was a sympathizer, he knew he was a Doctor.Booth needed both of these traits - immediately. (I am assuming that the broken leg occurred in Washington.)
If Mudd was a member of the "Doctor Line", which was owned and operated by Conrad. Conrad ran his own independent show. His plan to abduct Lincoln was squelched by Richmond, so, he stayed clear of Booth's plans and offered no direct support to him early-on. (Ruggles was his "Second-in-Command" and Booth rode Conrad's horse to Garrett's. Implying , to me, that he got involved very late in the escape.) I doubt that the "Secret Line", owned and operated by the Secret Service, was in-on the escape plan. Booth's travels through all of Maryland and on into Virginia, are too ragged, to be part of a well-planned caper. Booth did not hook-up with the Secret Line until he got to Dr. Stuart's.
I am of the school that believes that much of Booth's "planning", was his and his only, and probably was conceived day- by-day.
As for Mudd. I think he was basically a "nice guy". He would have doctored Lincoln, if he had been there that Friday night. I doubt very seriously, that he was a principal in the abduction or the assassination. His "Guilt", as determined by a suspect court, was by association. not by participation. After Booth came to him, he was trapped. He treated the injured man and tried to bail out. He held to his hypocritical oath, and he held to his political leanings - but he was not part of the Assassination.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - J. Beckert - 09-24-2013 06:02 AM
I think Dr. Mudd had "dirty hands" because of his previous meetings with Booth, but I'm on the fence with his farm being an intended stop. I don't know the lay of the land down there, but I remember John Ford said it would have been out of his way to stop at Mudd's and he felt it was not Booth's initial intention to stop there.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - wsanto - 09-24-2013 09:07 AM
(09-23-2013 11:15 PM)SSlater Wrote: Laurie. Booth left Mudd's with a CRUTCH, that he had not planned on needing.
Booth's original escape route was planned to run father west - down the Bumpy Oak Road, to Port Tobacco and the Nanjemoy. So, a stop at Mudd's was not planned. Booth went to Mudd's because he knew Mudd. He knew he was a sympathizer, he knew he was a Doctor.Booth needed both of these traits - immediately. (I am assuming that the broken leg occurred in Washington.)
If Mudd was a member of the "Doctor Line", which was owned and operated by Conrad. Conrad ran his own independent show. His plan to abduct Lincoln was squelched by Richmond, so, he stayed clear of Booth's plans and offered no direct support to him early-on. (Ruggles was his "Second-in-Command" and Booth rode Conrad's horse to Garrett's. Implying , to me, that he got involved very late in the escape.) I doubt that the "Secret Line", owned and operated by the Secret Service, was in-on the escape plan. Booth's travels through all of Maryland and on into Virginia, are too ragged, to be part of a well-planned caper. Booth did not hook-up with the Secret Line until he got to Dr. Stuart's.
I am of the school that believes that much of Booth's "planning", was his and his only, and probably was conceived day- by-day.
As for Mudd. I think he was basically a "nice guy". He would have doctored Lincoln, if he had been there that Friday night. I doubt very seriously, that he was a principal in the abduction or the assassination. His "Guilt", as determined by a suspect court, was by association. not by participation. After Booth came to him, he was trapped. He treated the injured man and tried to bail out. He held to his hypocritical oath, and he held to his political leanings - but he was not part of the Assassination.
Mudd was a liar. We know this for a fact. He had previously spent enough time with the handsome and dashing Booth to recognize him the night of the assassination. One look in his eyes would be enough despite any false whiskers he later claimed Booth was wearing. Does anyone even doubt that?
I believe he was told exactly what happened in the early hours that morning and knew the facts when he treated Booth. He then did all he could to abet Booth's escape far beyond treating his broken leg. Most importantly, he did not report the "strangers" at his house for over 24-hr despite his knowledge that soldiers were in Bryantown searching for the assassins of Lincoln early Saturday afternoon.
Laurie's theory is no less plausible because Booth left Mudd's house with a crutch. It is possible Booth planned to stop at Mudd's as part of his escape and, since he now had an injured leg, was treated by Mudd.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-24-2013 01:18 PM
(09-23-2013 07:27 PM)NJREB1863 Wrote: My question about whether Dr. Mudd expected visitors that night or very shortly thereafter revolves around when Booth discovered he had an opportunity to assassinate Lincoln which was not until around midday on the 14th. Herold in his travels on the 12th/13th, would not have known of a specific date to assassinate and at that time it doesn't seem that any known opportunities to kidnap were available to the conspirators either. So im not convinced Mudd was on the watch for Booth and Herold that night.
Tony, I do not think that Herold knew a specific date on which something was going to happen - only that it was coming soon. And that is what he was sent into Southern Maryland to say to the operatives that he knew. He actually didn't have to go any further than one operative; the word would spread just like the agents had been aided on their routes for four years.
I also do not believe that Herold was still suggesting a kidnapping. I think he knew full well that the assassination was the only recourse. Remember Booth's words on the night of April 11 upon hearing Lincoln speak about giving the vote to certain free men? There is even one story that Booth wanted Powell to shoot Lincoln on the spot.
I just find it a little more than coincidental that Booth explodes on the night of April 11, and Davey is on the road within 24-36 hours.
John "Stanton/Slater," you know that I am not about to agree with you on the Bumpy Oak Road route because the only source we can cite for that is Atzerodt, who is the least reliable conspiratorial source you could have. That may have been one of several routes that were discussed over the months in preparation for the kidnapping or whatever, but just that. Have you ever driven Bumpy Oak Road? I have a number of times, and my daughter uses it several times a week. Even with much improvement over the fifty years or so that I'm aware of, there is one section that is still treacherous. Unless March or April of 1865 had been months of severe drought, that road was literally "the pits." with swamp on either side thrown in.
Do you consider Harbin an agent on the Secret Line? I believe that he's the one that Booth wanted to get the message that he would be needing help in the near future. And Harbin and his cohort, Baden, came through in acting as decoys crossing the Potomac downriver to draw the troops away from the Pope's Creek/Allens Fresh area. And who shows up to assist Booth and Herold when they reach Mrs. Quesenberry? Harbin and Baden. They were the Southern Maryland agents who did their duty and made sure they got into Virginia. After that, it was up to sympathetic people in the Northern Neck - and we know how that went.
I don't understand your reference to Booth leaving with a crutch. John Best fashioned one for him at Dr. Mudd's because he arrived with a broken leg. I believe he would have arrived at Mudd's anyhow - broken leg or no broken leg. I can't prove it, but I don't know that anyone can 100% disprove it either.
Forgot to mention that I do not believe that anyone has ever proven that Mudd was a member of the Doctors' Line. I think he was a mail courier and one of the go-to people if you needed help. And, I don't mean for a broken leg.
(09-24-2013 06:02 AM)J. Beckert Wrote: I think Dr. Mudd had "dirty hands" because of his previous meetings with Booth, but I'm on the fence with his farm being an intended stop. I don't know the lay of the land down there, but I remember John Ford said it would have been out of his way to stop at Mudd's and he felt it was not Booth's initial intention to stop there.
I know that Ford said Mudd's was out of the way, but how did he know? Had he been there, or was he getting that as a second-hand excuse to save Dr. Mudd?
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Linda Anderson - 09-24-2013 02:05 PM
(09-23-2013 07:27 PM)NJREB1863 Wrote: My question about whether Dr. Mudd expected visitors that night or very shortly thereafter revolves around when Booth discovered he had an opportunity to assassinate Lincoln which was not until around midday on the 14th. Herold in his travels on the 12th/13th, would not have known of a specific date to assassinate and at that time it doesn't seem that any known opportunities to kidnap were available to the conspirators either. So im not convinced Mudd was on the watch for Booth and Herold that night.
Booth was looking for any opportunity to kill Lincoln that he could get that week. According to American Brutus, when General Grant and his wife arrived in Washington on Thursday, April 13, Booth "was planning something, and very likely, Grant's arrival would make this a perfect night to strike.
"Even the date seemed right. An assassination on April 13 would reemphasize how fate had driven Booth, and how history had guided him. Not only was it the birthday of Jefferson, but in the ancient Roman calendar it was a day of reckoning-the Ides."
A man looking like Lewis Powell knocked on Seward's dining room window Thursday morning asking about Seward's health. However, Booth did not find his opportunity on Thursday. Lincoln had a headache that evening and so did not accompany Mary and General Grant on their carriage ride to view the illumination.
Instead of the Ides, Booth shot Lincoln on Good Friday which prompted many preachers to compare the martyred president with the crucified Christ.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Rhatkinson - 09-24-2013 03:16 PM
WSanto wrote:
Mudd was a liar. We know this for a fact. He had previously spent enough time with the handsome and dashing Booth to recognize him the night of the assassination. One look in his eyes would be enough despite any false whiskers he later claimed Booth was wearing. Does anyone even doubt that?
I believe he was told exactly what happened in the early hours that morning and knew the facts when he treated Booth. He then did all he could to abet Booth's escape far beyond treating his broken leg. Most importantly, he did not report the "strangers" at his house for over 24-hr despite his knowledge that soldiers were in Bryantown searching for the assassins of Lincoln early Saturday afternoon.
Laurie's theory is no less plausible because Booth left Mudd's house with a crutch. It is possible Booth planned to stop at Mudd's as part of his escape and, since he now had an injured leg, was treated by Mudd.
I support Laurie's theory in part because of Atzerodt's statement and the fact that Booth had to stop SOMEWHERE on the night of the 14th once he escaped far enough into Maryland. He knew that he could not travel safely during the day, so he needed a place to stop. Why WOULDN'T he stop at Mudd's (who he knew well) when his home was on the projected kidnapping escape route? I would like to know what some believe Booth's route was further west to T.B., etc. What is this based on?
As to what Booth told Mudd the night of the 14th, I agree completely with Bill. Why on Earth would Booth (or Herold depending on which Lloyd statement you believe) brag to a stranger like Lloyd about killing the President, yet clam up to a fellow (kidnapping at least) conspirator like Mudd? It makes no sense and I believe that Mudd simply lied about that fact as he did many other facts.
Heath
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-24-2013 03:22 PM
Mike used to say almost those exact same words on our Booth Tours.
I would like to go back to the situation at the Mudd home after reading Mrs. Mudd's interview that Roger posted from Bob Summer's wonderful site:
The children's nurse was either one smart, young lady and kept her mouth shut, or Mrs. Mudd was covering for her. It goes down in history that she and the children slept through the whole affair during the early-morning hours. If I had a nursemaid for my children who was that sound a sleeper, she would not have her job for very long. I would want someone with a mother's instinct to sleep with one ear open to hear any strange sounds from the children - especially an infant - and especially if I'm sleeping in a downstairs room and they are upstairs.
Nancy Tilly sleeps through two horses coming up the drive and being tethered. There is a very strong possibility that the Mudds owned dogs who would be raising cain -- but maybe they shut up once they recognized Booth and Herold as having been to the house before. I'm a monkey's aunt if Booth didn't utter curses or at least yelps of pain when dismounting.
Then there is knocking at the door that she sleeps through, three men talking downstairs, three men (two in boots) coming upstairs and past her door - one man having an obviously strange gait. If Booth didn't make a peep during the time his boot was being cut off and his bone set, he must have been biting the pillow very hard! Then she had to sleep through Dr. Mudd going downstairs. If she slept through all that, I want to know her secret (Wine of Valerian?)!
We won't get into the question as to whether or not Nancy Tilly saw either Booth or Herold during the day on Saturday...
Now let's move to Frank Washington, the tenant who came at daybreak to take care of the horses. That would have been about two hours after those horses arrived at the farm having been ridden hard for thirty miles and left to stand idle. I thought horses had to be walked and lathered down after such long, hard riding? However, they obviously survived their Mudd visit. Since Booth's original little mare did not like to be kept tethered, I wonder how she behaved for those several hours?
And, Washington is listed as the "hosteler" for the Mudds; but Thomas Davis is the one who testifies to the small injury near the chest on the mare. Did Washington work under the supervision of Davis, or was a white man handed the job by a free black man. That would have been highly unusual in Southern Maryland six months after the abolition of slavery.
I know that I'm surmising a lot of things and, as I said at the beginning, throwing some Mudd into the game; but that's what makes history fun - as long as you don't try to pass it off as truth until there are facts to prove your theories. I hope that's the way my postings on this matter are coming across. A good teaching technique is to play the devil's advocate and pry thoughts out of others.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Eva Elisabeth - 09-24-2013 06:38 PM
(09-23-2013 11:15 PM)SSlater Wrote: As for Mudd. I think he was basically a "nice guy".Wasn't it said he had treated his slaves harshly and shot one in the leg?
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-24-2013 06:39 PM
(09-24-2013 03:16 PM)Rhatkinson Wrote: WSanto wrote:
Mudd was a liar. We know this for a fact. He had previously spent enough time with the handsome and dashing Booth to recognize him the night of the assassination. One look in his eyes would be enough despite any false whiskers he later claimed Booth was wearing. Does anyone even doubt that?
I believe he was told exactly what happened in the early hours that morning and knew the facts when he treated Booth. He then did all he could to abet Booth's escape far beyond treating his broken leg. Most importantly, he did not report the "strangers" at his house for over 24-hr despite his knowledge that soldiers were in Bryantown searching for the assassins of Lincoln early Saturday afternoon.
Laurie's theory is no less plausible because Booth left Mudd's house with a crutch. It is possible Booth planned to stop at Mudd's as part of his escape and, since he now had an injured leg, was treated by Mudd.
I support Laurie's theory in part because of Atzerodt's statement and the fact that Booth had to stop SOMEWHERE on the night of the 14th once he escaped far enough into Maryland. He knew that he could not travel safely during the day, so he needed a place to stop. Why WOULDN'T he stop at Mudd's (who he knew well) when his home was on the projected kidnapping escape route? I would like to know what some believe Booth's route was further west to T.B., etc. What is this based on?
As to what Booth told Mudd the night of the 14th, I agree completely with Bill. Why on Earth would Booth (or Herold depending on which Lloyd statement you believe) brag to a stranger like Lloyd about killing the President, yet clam up to a fellow (kidnapping at least) conspirator like Mudd? It makes no sense and I believe that Mudd simply lied about that fact as he did many other facts.
Heath
If I understand your question, Heath, others think that, instead of going straight north and south to Surrattsville, through T.B. and on to Horsehead Tavern and Dr. Mudd's (via the New Cut Road that had just been put through in 1850 as the first north-south route out of D.C. into the lower counties of Maryland - which, along with Baltimore and Annapolis, constituted the economic base of the state and was the stagecoach route that Booth had used in the fall of 1864 to get to Bryantown and a main route for the Confederate underground) the conspirators were going to hang a left onto what is now Piscataway Road upon leaving Surratt Tavern. OMG, that may be the longest, run-on sentence in history!
Piscataway would take them west about five miles to the village of Piscataway, which had been carefully monitored by the Feds during the war. From that village, they had two options: Turn left and head on to the tiny hamlet of Dansville (about three miles) and then on to T.B. (about another three miles). The other option would have them heading through Piscataway in the direction of modern day Indian Head Highway for about three miles, then south for about five miles, then west on Bumpy Oak Road to Port Tobacco (about six or more miles). I think I got all the turns right.
There is also a third option which people overlook. If they stayed straight at the foot of the Navy Yard Bridge in Uniontown/Anacostia and headed past the Government Hospital for the Insane (St. Elizabeth's), which also had a federal camp surrounding it, they would eventually come to the area around Indian Head Highway and on to Bumpy Oak.
It is still longer and not a straight shot. It was also a more primitive and less traveled route. I admit to being biased because I have spent my life traveling and driving these roads and know what they were like in the 1950s (some not much better today). I also listened to a grandmother, mother, and uncle who lived in the area their entire lives from 1870s on.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - SSlater - 09-25-2013 12:11 AM
I have no problem with the lies that are attributed to Dr. Mudd. We all would have done the same, had we been in his predicament. There is no question that Mudd was a sympathizer, but not an active "agent". Can anyone provide another incident where Mudd was treasonous? I do not believe that he knew Booth - at 4 AM - months after he was introduced or remembered the "land purchase" visit. I have met people at the Surratt House, and had long talks with them - but I would not recognize them if they came to my door at 4 AM. So, that is not a lie.
How did Mudd feel about the assassination? Did he consider it a crime? or was it an act of war? If the South did benefit from the assassination, and win the war, then the South may have hanged Mudd for turning Booth in. Mudd was in a No-Win situation, so he kept quiet, until....... Thus, his action, to help one of "his" soldiers, is understandable.
He did not invite Booth to Stop-by. He got trapped.