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RE: Things Lincoln never said - Steve Whitlock - 05-31-2020 01:56 PM
(08-09-2012 05:08 AM)RJNorton Wrote: I have a web page devoted to this topic here.
That is a list I have spent a good amount of time researching over the past 16 years and never found legitimate sources for.
If anyone has corrections/additions/subtractions/sources/ I would love to hear from you!
I use the "Dr. Thomas Schwartz" method of researching quotes: (paraphrased from a post he once made on ALO)
(1) If it's not in the Collected Works that is Strike One.
(2) If it's also not in the Fehrenbachers' book that is Strike Two.
(3) If it's also not in any of the other books cited on that web page that is usually Strike Three.
Most of the quotes in Shaw's encyclopedia are accurate, but he does include some dubious ones.
Roger,
I just want to thank you for your list of "Unproven Quotations Attributed to Abraham Lincoln".
I've been seeking proof of "I don't know who my grandfather was; I am much more concerned to know what his grandson will be," a statement supposedly made by Abraham to James Speed, according to a sworn statement by Dr Christopher Columbus Graham, (used in Ida M. Tarbell's "Early Life of Lincoln" and William E. Barton's "The Paternity of Abraham Lincoln", and whoever else). After getting nowhere I finally went to my best source, Roger Norton, who showed me the way home, again.
""They never said it, A Book of Fake Quotes" also acknowledges that Lincoln may have said it, but it is unproven. I don't have access to Fehrenbacher, but you show them as a reference, so I'm confident you vetted the quote.
I have difficulty believing Dr Graham made the quote up himself, and he has errors in his statements, but he must have heard it, or read it somewhere. Why else wasn't he forthcoming as to his Lincoln knowledge sooner?
Thank you for your diligent pursuit of the truth, and your genorosity!
RE: Things Lincoln never said - RJNorton - 05-31-2020 02:38 PM
(05-31-2020 01:56 PM)Steve Whitlock Wrote: I don't have access to Fehrenbacher, but you show them as a reference, so I'm confident you vetted the quote.
Hi Steve and thank you. I just checked the Fehrenbachers' book, and the quote is not in there.
RE: Things Lincoln never said - Steve Whitlock - 05-31-2020 03:23 PM
(05-31-2020 02:38 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(05-31-2020 01:56 PM)Steve Whitlock Wrote: I don't have access to Fehrenbacher, but you show them as a reference, so I'm confident you vetted the quote.
Hi Steve and thank you. I just checked the Fehrenbachers' book, and the quote is not in there.
Roger,
The reason that the statement isn't in the Fehrenbacher book may be, if I understand Rich Hileman correctly, "The reason is that they included only statements attributed to Lincoln by the person who claimed to hear it from Lincoln."
Meanwhile, since the quote is used at Genetic Lincoln as a motto, Suzanne Hallstrom advised me of pg 232 of “Lincoln in American Memory” by Merrill D. Peterson, ( excerpt attached). The statement is attributed to Herndon hearing it from Mr Lincoln.
RE: Things Lincoln never said - RJNorton - 05-31-2020 03:50 PM
Steve, can you please post a source for Herndon saying Lincoln said this. Thanks. If Herndon indeed reported this, I may consider deleting the quote from my web page. Personally (and I sure may have missed it), I do not recall ever reading that Herndon reported Lincoln saying this. Although the book does have endnotes, there is no endnote for Merrill Peterson's statement on p. 232. (No matter what, Professor Peterson's book is an invaluable resource - highly respected)
RE: Things Lincoln never said - Steve Whitlock - 05-31-2020 06:11 PM
(05-31-2020 03:50 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Steve, can you please post a source for Herndon saying Lincoln said this. Thanks. If Herndon indeed reported this, I may consider deleting the quote from my web page. Personally (and I sure may have missed it), I do not recall ever reading that Herndon reported Lincoln saying this. Although the book does have endnotes, there is no endnote for Merrill Peterson's statement on p. 232. (No matter what, Professor Peterson's book is an invaluable resource - highly respected)Roger,
As you doubtless know, and can see in the excerpt, Merrill Peterson didn't note a source for his quote. Mr Peterson is also deceased, so I can't ask him.
Meanwhile, I'll keep looking for a little while longer, for both James Speed and Herndon as recipients of said attributed quote.
Steve W.
RE: Things Lincoln never said - Gene C - 05-31-2020 06:44 PM
It's not in Herndon's Lincoln.
If Lincoln had said that to Herndon, I would think he would have added it in his biography of Lincoln.
This is what Herndon did say (p 2-4)
https://archive.org/details/herndonslincol3370hern/page/2/mode/2up
RE: Things Lincoln never said - Steve Whitlock - 05-31-2020 07:37 PM
(05-31-2020 06:44 PM)Gene C Wrote: It's not in Herndon's Lincoln.Thank you, Gene. I have the buggy ride page information, and I think Mr Peterson got confused, or went by something he thought he remembered.
If Lincoln had said that to Herndon, I would think he would have added it in his biography of Lincoln.
This is what Herndon did say (p 2-4)
https://archive.org/details/herndonslincol3370hern/page/2/mode/2up
At any rate I'm mainly trying to discern where Christopher Columbus Graham got the quote. Which leads me to wonder that if we accept Herndon's word, why must we discard the sworn testimony of Dr Graham, even tho he has errors in the statements. Does that discredit the whole testimony. Well, I've already discarded much of what he said, but that one quote haunts me. Perhaps I need an exorcism.
RE: Things Lincoln never said - wpbinzel - 06-11-2020 10:13 PM
Here is another that I have seen on TV lately:
“When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Also see: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21373-when-you-reach-the-end-of-your-rope-tie-a
RE: Things Lincoln never said - RJNorton - 06-12-2020 04:19 AM
(06-11-2020 10:13 PM)wpbinzel Wrote: Here is another that I have seen on TV lately:
“When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Also see: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21373-when-you-reach-the-end-of-your-rope-tie-a
Take your pick!
“When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on.” —Thomas Jefferson
“When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on.” —Franklin Roosevelt
“When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.” —Abraham Lincoln
“When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hold on.” —Teddy Roosevelt
"Which version is the correct one? None of them. They are all fake."
https://www.hmhco.com/blog/teach-students-how-to-identify-fake-quotes-online-5-tips
RE: Things Lincoln never said - RJNorton - 06-13-2020 03:53 PM
"My best friend is a person who will give me a book I have not read."
This (apparent) Lincoln quote is included in one of the articles in the latest edition of the Lincoln Herald.
I am not familiar with a legitimate source for this quote. Does anyone know of one?
RE: Things Lincoln never said - Steve Whitlock - 06-13-2020 08:28 PM
(06-13-2020 03:53 PM)RJNorton Wrote: "My best friend is a person who will give me a book I have not read."
This (apparent) Lincoln quote is included in one of the articles in the latest edition of the Lincoln Herald.
I am not familiar with a legitimate source for this quote. Does anyone know of one?
Roger,
This may not be legitimate enough, but Wikiquote says:
Did Lincoln say, "My best friend..."
~~02/17/14~~ Did Lincoln say, "My best friend is a person who will give me a book I have not read"?
I see this all over the Internet, but I can't find it on Wikiquote.org's Lincoln page.—This unsigned comment is by 184.98.228.11 (talk • contribs) .
It seems so. The article "Abe Lincoln and His Books" by Frances Cavanah, published in 1953 by the Wilson Library Bulletin magazine, makes a similar attribution to Lincoln; it reads:
"My best friend," he told his cousin, Dennis Hanks, "is a man who can give me a book I ain't read." [4]
But there are many other, earlier, (and sometimes contradictory,) accounts; one claims that Lincoln said to Judge Pitcher, "The things I want to know are in books; my best friend is the man who'll git me a book I ain't read." ([5], Lockridge A. Lincoln [1930], p. 42.) Perhaps Lincoln said this to both his cousin and Pitcher, as suggested here (Sandburg Abraham Lincoln: The Prairie Years [1929], pp. 42–43). A plausible source for this very quote is given in The Lincoln Treasury (1950) as follows:
"The things I want to know are in books; my best friend is the man who'll git me a book I ain't read." (Circa 1825 —Sandburg, Prairie Years, I, p. 71 [6])
******************
RE: Things Lincoln never said - RJNorton - 06-14-2020 03:51 AM
Thanks, Steve! It looks like this one, or a version of it, is likely a legitimate quote. I can check Herndon's Informants and see if the Dennis Hanks' version is in there.
I found the quote a little unusual as Francis B. Carpenter wrote that in 1864 Lincoln told him, "I never read an entire novel in my life!"
RE: Things Lincoln never said - Steve Whitlock - 06-14-2020 09:47 AM
(06-14-2020 03:51 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Thanks, Steve! It looks like this one, or a version of it, is likely a legitimate quote. I can check Herndon's Informants and see if the Dennis Hanks' version is in there.Roger,
I found the quote a little unusual as Francis B. Carpenter wrote that in 1864 Lincoln told him, "I never read an entire novel in my life!"
I don't believe Mr Lincoln said "I never read an entire novel in my life!", and the other quote is still a maybe for me insofar as legitimacy is concerned. But as you say "a version of it" might be legit. I see a date of circa 1825 used by Sandburg in "Prairie Years", which would have Abe about 15-16, and not so eloquent.
RE: Things Lincoln never said - RJNorton - 06-14-2020 01:41 PM
The Fehrenbachers give the quote a "C."
RE: Things Lincoln never said - Steve Whitlock - 06-16-2020 11:07 PM
(05-31-2020 03:50 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Steve, can you please post a source for Herndon saying Lincoln said this. Thanks. If Herndon indeed reported this, I may consider deleting the quote from my web page. Personally (and I sure may have missed it), I do not recall ever reading that Herndon reported Lincoln saying this. Although the book does have endnotes, there is no endnote for Merrill Peterson's statement on p. 232. (No matter what, Professor Peterson's book is an invaluable resource - highly respected)Roger,
After going through several thousand news clippings for James and Joshua Speed, plus Dr C. C. Graham, I found no acceptable credit for the attributed Lincoln quote, just it's use in that regard a couple of times.
It occurs to me that perhaps James Speed mentioned it to C. C. Graham, and it was not general knowledge. James Speed and Dr Graham were both in the Louisville, KY area for the 1880 census, with James Speed normally there most of his life, and C. C. Graham moving there circa 1872 from Mercer Co., KY. The fact they knew each other is shown by the occasion of Dr Graham's 100th birthday which was well-attended, and one invitee was James Speed, who wrote a letter advising he couldn't attend (bottom letter in the 1st attachment).
Previously, in 1867, James Speed made an impressive oratory for the unveiling of a bust for Abraham Lincoln in Louisville (attachments#2-7). I wanted to include the news clipping for that occasion, but the file is too big for me to add myself. It had extra information about who sculpted the bust (A. P. Henry), etc. Also, 2 persons scheduled to speak after James Speed declined to follow that sterling presentation.
James Speed knew Mr Lincoln well, and saw no need to refer to the quote in question, while quoting him a couple of times. Therefore, the quote remains attributed to Abraham Lincoln. Another time and place Joshua Fry Speed also spoke about Mr Lincoln, and also made no mention of said quote.
But lest we forget Dr Graham and any connection to Abe we have the 8th attachment, an Abraham Lincoln sculpted panel for his life in KY, at the Lincoln Boyhood Memorial. The man in the hat directly in front of young Abe, said to be telling him a story, is none other than Dr Graham. It would seem whoever sculpted the panel believed Dr Graham's sworn testimony, or knows something we don't.
Also of interest in that panel is the man behind Dr Graham. That's Jesse La Follette. Why is he there? I believe he was included because Jesse was in the same ejectment suit with Thomas Lincoln, for their property. It's possible the artist knew something that Louis A. Warren didn't know in his article for the "Lincolns and La Follettes".
Louis danced with the wife of Jesse La Follette, Mary (Lee) La Follette, (so to speak), but he just couldn't fully commit to who she was, which is, the niece of Ann "Nanny" (Lee) Hanks. Louis suspected she might be a relative, and made some allowances, but didn't know that Mary's father, Charles Lee in Hardin Co., KY, was a brother of Ann, as proven by Y-dna testing.
But Louis wasn't the only one. Years later Jesse and Mary (Lee) La Follette's grandson, senator Robert M. La Follette, didn't know he was related to the president either. There were other Lee and La Follette marriages as well, sisters of Mary "Polly" (Lee) La Follette. I can't attach the pdf file for the whole article, however, I'll include a few JSTOR pages for a portion of the article. Oops! That didn't work either. Oh well, The Lees, Hanks, and some La Follettes are blood-relatives to Abe. I noticed there seems to be no mention of the La Follettes at the Symposium.
Here is the description for the Kentucky sculpted panel.
"This is the first of five sculpted limestone panels in the cloister wall at the Lincoln Boyhood National Memorial. Sculptor E.H. Daniels depicts Abraham Lincoln's years in Kentucky (1809-1816), showing him in the middle as how he might have looked as a seven-year-old. From left to right: Jesse LaFollette, Thomas Lincoln, Dr. Christopher Columbus Graham, Nancy Hanks Lincoln, Sarah Lincoln, and Caleb Hazel."