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+--- Thread: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO (/thread-957.html)
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - barryssentials - 07-08-2013 11:21 AM
(07-07-2013 12:37 PM)John E. Wrote:(07-07-2013 10:55 AM)L Verge Wrote: Is Waddell the correct spelling or Wardell? I met Jacob Mogelever one time courtesy of James O. Hall and still like his book. I wonder what happened to his papers? Also, Andrew Jampoler, author of The Last Lincoln Conspirator, is a friend; and he writes extensively on naval themes. I'm going to run Waddell's name past him to see if we can make any ties to a Wardell also.
James I. Waddell is the correct spelling from the book. Its not quite exact but Barry suspects that perhaps someone used it as inspiration for the name James A. Wardell.
Hi everyone. This isn't even in the realm of what I'd consider a theory on my part (lol) but rather just another possible avenue of exploration. I thought it was an interesting coincidence that the Wardell letter mentions both Wardell and Baker more than once and the Mogelever book shows an interesting 'name similarity' between Waddell and Baker. I admit, it is far fetched and probably not worth the thought (but that is how my mind works). If one were to assume that the Wardell letter was a fabrication (created after 1960), then the 1960 Mogelever book could have been partially responsible for the name creation. However, I am currently under the belief that the letter was faked and concocted sometime in the early 1900s after Oldroyd's book came out. No proof about this, but just my present state of mind. Happy History! Barry
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - wsanto - 07-09-2013 08:10 AM
(07-08-2013 11:21 AM)barryssentials Wrote: James I. Waddell is the correct spelling from the bo
Hi everyone. This isn't even in the realm of what I'd consider a theory on my part (lol) but rather just another possible avenue of exploration. I thought it was an interesting coincidence that the Wardell letter mentions both Wardell and Baker more than once and the Mogelever book shows an interesting 'name similarity' between Waddell and Baker. I admit, it is far fetched and probably not worth the thought (but that is how my mind works). If one were to assume that the Wardell letter was a fabrication (created after 1960), then the 1960 Mogelever book could have been partially responsible for the name creation. However, I am currently under the belief that the letter was faked and concocted sometime in the early 1900s after Oldroyd's book came out. No proof about this, but just my present state of mind. Happy History! Barry
Could Mogelever have misspelled Wardell's name in his book? It does seem coincidental but the coincidence could go either way.
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - barryssentials - 07-10-2013 06:45 PM
(07-09-2013 08:10 AM)wsanto Wrote: [quote='barryssentials' pid='21290' dateline='1373300472']
James I. Waddell is the correct spelling from Mogelever's book and has a history that can be traced. However, you are correct that as far as a coincidence goes, like so many bits of history, they can be interpreted in so many different ways. Thanks.
Barry
Could Mogelever have misspelled Wardell's name in his book? It does seem coincidental but the coincidence could go either way.
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - L Verge - 07-10-2013 07:56 PM
Somewhere I thought that I had posted that James Waddell was with the C.S.S. Shenandoah in Liverpool, England, at the time of the assassination and the Booth autopsy.
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - Gene C - 07-10-2013 08:06 PM
You did. Try post #8, Betting on Booth
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - L Verge - 07-10-2013 08:22 PM
(07-10-2013 08:06 PM)Gene C Wrote: You did. Try post #8, Betting on Booth
Thank you. Evidently, I'm not totally senile yet.
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - John E. - 07-11-2013 10:46 AM
For anyone living in the DC area, Terry Alford sent me a nice lead regarding names of Federal agents. I had no idea of this particular source.
Edward C. Fishel’s (papers, located at Georgetown library, contain a comprehensive index of federal agents. If I was in the area, I would check it out with the belief that his name will not turn up. But I'd still check.
http://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/10822/559055/GTM.GAMMS278.html?sequence=1
If anyone gets the chance or is motivated to look in to this further, please let me know.
Thanks
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - Gene C - 07-11-2013 11:05 AM
I'd be interest to know if Andrew Potter is on that list.
Has anyone read Fishel's Book?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395901367/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001KVISRU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0GAPDEB7HWEF4CMMS3MN
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - John E. - 07-12-2013 02:53 PM
(07-11-2013 11:05 AM)Gene C Wrote: I'd be interest to know if Andrew Potter is on that list.
Has anyone read Fishel's Book?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395901367/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001KVISRU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0GAPDEB7HWEF4CMMS3MN
Hello Gene,
I ordered a used copy of it and hope it will arrive soon. I'll be sure to check if Andrew Potter's name is mentioned.
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - Gene C - 07-12-2013 04:58 PM
Does the actual statement by Wardell exist, or are we dealing only with a transcript? There is no original handwritten document?
(sounds like Neff and the Potter Papers)
Have I got this right..Kautz get the transcript from Ostendorf, who got it from Oldroyd, who interviewed Wardell?
And so far, we have no proof Wardell existed?
Is the entire transcript in Kautz's book about the Gardner photo's? And do we know if Ostendorf or Oldroyd ever gave a copy of this interview to anyone else?
Kautz's is the only copy?
Interesting....John & Barry, you guys are speaking at the next Surratt Conference in 2014?
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - L Verge - 07-12-2013 07:58 PM
This is just my personal take on the subject (and I dealt with Mark Katz while he was writing and then selling his book - which is beautiful):
So far as I can tell from Mr. Katz's citation in the book and from what papers at the James O. Hall Research Center indicate, the Wardell "letter" only exists as a TRANSCRIPT (shades of Joseph Lynch and the missing pages from Booth's diary - a transcript that got easily dissected as a fake back in the early-1980s.). At the time Katz was writing the Gardner book (which includes much more than just this one topic), it is my understanding that the TRANSCRIPT was in the hands of Lincoln artist/collector Lloyd Ostendorf (whose integrity has been questioned on several other occasions). In fact, the citation refers to it as a transcript from Lloyd Ostendorf.
I never met Mr. Ostendorf, and he is now deceased. I don't feel that it is fair for us to judge him on this occasion. Does anyone know what happened to his Lincoln-related holdings? Does anyone know from whom he acquired even the transcript of the Wardell letter? Does anyone know if Oldroyd or Ostendorf or anyone ever said that they had the original? One of the best researchers in the field, Michael Kauffman, told John Elliott that he never found proof of Wardell even existing. To me, that says a lot because I know the amount of time, money, blood, sweat, and tears that Kauffman put into his work.
In a recent telephone conversation with some folks, however, I was told that another gentleman has claimed that he found the Lawrence Gardner article several years ago and is upset that John Elliott has brought it to everyone's attention first. This person, however, evidently uses several aliases or just his e-mail moniker in his correspondence. He also sounds like he is very protective of the memory of both Oldroyd and Ostendorf. If I remember correctly, Robert Lincoln had very little good to say about Oldroyd...
The search for Wardell and his original letter is yet another avenue for us to travel down. Mr. Hall used to call our gang the Baker Street Irregulars. Those of you familiar with Sherlock Holmes will get the connection. Any Irregulars out there want to join in the search?
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - Gene C - 07-12-2013 08:04 PM
(07-12-2013 07:58 PM)L Verge Wrote: Any Irregulars out there want to join in the search?
I would Laurie, but I take something for that now and I'm doing much better
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - Rhatkinson - 07-12-2013 08:23 PM
What was R. T. Lincoln's criticism of Olroyd?
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - J. Beckert - 07-12-2013 08:30 PM
(07-12-2013 08:23 PM)Rhatkinson Wrote: What was R. T. Lincoln's criticism of Olroyd?
I was just looking for what he called him, but I can't find it. Oldroyd rented the Lincoln home in Springfield and stiffed RTL for quite a bit of rent. He also kept a photo of Booth on the mantle, which infuriated (understandably) Lincoln's son.
RE: ** NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING BOOTH AUTOPSY PHOTO - L Verge - 07-12-2013 08:34 PM
He was very upset at what Oldroyd did to the Springfield home and some Lincoln items while Oldroyd was renting the house -- and then failing to pay the rent.
Those of you who get the Surratt Courier will enjoy a long bio on Oldroyd in the August issue, which went to the printer today. It is written by Bob Allen, one of our Booth Tour narrators. He's also working on an article about Gath and contemplating one on Stanley Kimmel because of the tie-in with his duties as our narrator.