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+--- Thread: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! (/thread-2906.html)
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - Gene C - 06-29-2016 06:43 AM
I don't know much about the Gaelic language but....here's a song - Wake Me Up -sung in Gaelic and then by an a cappella group in English so you can understand the lyrics (somewhat)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A6__HssHW8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbzrs_lOgKI
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - L Verge - 07-01-2016 09:14 AM
John Stanton-Slater -- In one of your posts, you mentioned the book The Rebel and the Rose, which (despite its romantic novel title) is a non-fiction work on what happened to the last of the Confederate gold. A long-time Life Member of the Surratt Society and former director of NOAA, Dr. Mark Waters, has studied this subject for decades and has really delved into it since retiring to his wife's hometown of Washington, Georgia. Those of you familiar with the history will understand the significance of that town.
I emailed Mark for his opinion of this 2007 book: "Yes I have a copy of The Rebel and the Rose: James A. Semple, Julia Gardiner Tyler, and The Lost Confederate Gold: Wesley Millett and Gerald White, Cumberland House Publishing Inc., Nashville, TN, 2007 and have read it. I’m not big on the love story aspect of the book – but – the authors do a good job in their appendix giving different options for what the Confederate Treasury contained. I’ve had both verbal and email exchanges with Gerald White (USAF retired O-6) regarding the book. My opinion: they did a very good job throughout – especially what happened to the last payment of $86,000 to Semple.
The $86,000 given to Semple intended for deposit on account of the Confederate Government in England, never made it out of the country. Semple, in company with Edward M. Tidball, a naval purchasing agent who worked for Semple, stashed the treasure in the false bottom of a carriage and took it to Augusta, Georgia. At Augusta, Semple met up with William F. Howell, another naval purchasing agent and brother of Varina Davis. Semple gave Tidball $27,000 and Howell $25,000(11). Semple took the remaining $34,000 to Savannah and distributed various amount to friends for safekeeping – which he retrieved over the years(12). Tidball went home to Winchester, Virginia, in 1865 and bought a parcel of land in 1867 and farmed(13) – most probably using these assets given to him by Semple. Howell took Varina, her children and their mother, and moved to Canada with the assets given to him by Semple. (The reference numbers are from The Rebel and the Rose.)"
11 The Rebel and the Rose: James A Semple, Julia Gardiner Tyler, and the Lost Confederate Gold, Wesley Millet and Gerald White, Cumberland House, Nashville, TN, page 173, 2007
12 Ibid, page 177
13 Ibid, page 175
Why is the name "Tidball" already familiar to me? I guess I'm going to have to buy a copy of the book. I'm still looking for information pointing to Judah Benjamin taking a good share and running to England with it.
John - This link makes mention of the Fenian Brotherhood. Probably basic stuff you already know, but there's a possible tie-in with Harney? http://www.assaultweb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137634
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - SSlater - 07-27-2016 10:54 PM
Since I am trying to figure out just What was Harney trying to do to the White House, I needed to know a little about its construction and when the work was done. Also, in another Post (some time ago) we wondered "when did the White House get indoor plumbing?" So, then Laurie publishes a terrific story in this month's "Courier", in which she has a line that says - on the east end of the White House was a row of "outhouses".
This pushed me to hunt deeper - now we know that the White House got "dressing rooms with toilets attached - here-to-fore- entirely lacking". in 1902.
FYI. Because all pipes are buried in he walls and would be difficult, if not impossible, to repair, they are made of Brass. (Brass is rust proof and more resistant to damage) but expensive. (A silly post, but informative.)
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - L Verge - 07-28-2016 04:12 PM
(07-27-2016 10:54 PM)SSlater Wrote: Since I am trying to figure out just What was Harney trying to do to the White House, I needed to know a little about its construction and when the work was done. Also, in another Post (some time ago) we wondered "when did the White House get indoor plumbing?" So, then Laurie publishes a terrific story in this month's "Courier", in which she has a line that says - on the east end of the White House was a row of "outhouses".
This pushed me to hunt deeper - now we know that the White House got "dressing rooms with toilets attached - here-to-fore- entirely lacking". in 1902.
FYI. Because all pipes are buried in he walls and would be difficult, if not impossible, to repair, they are made of Brass. (Brass is rust proof and more resistant to damage) but expensive. (A silly post, but informative.)
Be careful with terminology because "outhouses" often referred to "outbuildings," meaning additional structures not attached to the main house.
Sure wish I could find William Seale's communication of about 30 years ago describing the large sewer drains that were there during the Civil War and large enough for a man to walk in. It may be in the Hall/Tidwell files, but life is too hectic right now for me to do research.
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - SSlater - 08-01-2016 08:16 PM
(07-28-2016 04:12 PM)L Verge Wrote:The article that I found on the internet described individual buildings around the White House - the Stables, the Carriage house, etc." And the row of outhouses. The outhouses were located on the East end near the Big Big all purpose room. The outhouses were located where they would be most needed. The article continues with mention of the large amount of new piping being added for the new toilets. This does not mention the Large Pipes that we suspect were in use, but it does tell us to SEARCH!(07-27-2016 10:54 PM)SSlater Wrote: Since I am trying to figure out just What was Harney trying to do to the White House, I needed to know a little about its construction and when the work was done. Also, in another Post (some time ago) we wondered "when did the White House get indoor plumbing?" So, then Laurie publishes a terrific story in this month's "Courier", in which she has a line that says - on the east end of the White House was a row of "outhouses".
This pushed me to hunt deeper - now we know that the White House got "dressing rooms with toilets attached - here-to-fore- entirely lacking". in 1902.
FYI. Because all pipes are buried in he walls and would be difficult, if not impossible, to repair, they are made of Brass. (Brass is rust proof and more resistant to damage) but expensive. (A silly post, but informative.)
Be careful with terminology because "outhouses" often referred to "outbuildings," meaning additional structures not attached to the main house.
Sure wish I could find William Seale's communication of about 30 years ago describing the large sewer drains that were there during the Civil War and large enough for a man to walk in. It may be in the Hall/Tidwell files, but life is too hectic right now for me to do research.
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - Houmes - 08-02-2016 07:38 AM
(08-01-2016 08:16 PM)SSlater Wrote:(07-28-2016 04:12 PM)L Verge Wrote:The article that I found on the internet described individual buildings around the White House - the Stables, the Carriage house, etc." And the row of outhouses. The outhouses were located on the East end near the Big Big all purpose room. The outhouses were located where they would be most needed. The article continues with mention of the large amount of new piping being added for the new toilets. This does not mention the Large Pipes that we suspect were in use, but it does tell us to SEARCH!(07-27-2016 10:54 PM)SSlater Wrote: Since I am trying to figure out just What was Harney trying to do to the White House, I needed to know a little about its construction and when the work was done. Also, in another Post (some time ago) we wondered "when did the White House get indoor plumbing?" So, then Laurie publishes a terrific story in this month's "Courier", in which she has a line that says - on the east end of the White House was a row of "outhouses".
This pushed me to hunt deeper - now we know that the White House got "dressing rooms with toilets attached - here-to-fore- entirely lacking". in 1902.
FYI. Because all pipes are buried in he walls and would be difficult, if not impossible, to repair, they are made of Brass. (Brass is rust proof and more resistant to damage) but expensive. (A silly post, but informative.)
Be careful with terminology because "outhouses" often referred to "outbuildings," meaning additional structures not attached to the main house.
Sure wish I could find William Seale's communication of about 30 years ago describing the large sewer drains that were there during the Civil War and large enough for a man to walk in. It may be in the Hall/Tidwell files, but life is too hectic right now for me to do research.
The original sewer line from the White House was designed by James Hoban, and it was placed during the original construction or during a reconstruction in 1816-18. It was constructed of bricks in an arched fashion, three feet high at the highest point. There were several pipes in the walls of the White House and their purpose was to carry water from the roof gutters and water closets (the first one was built in 1800), channeling it to the sewer line out on to the plains south of the house. At the time of construction, that area was a swamp. Drainage was poor, with the basement floors having leaks and seepage. The kitchen was in the basement and one could only speculate on the various combined smells. Incidentally, the servants were not allowed to use any toilet in the White House. Best reference for White House details is by William Seale, The President's House: A History. Washington, DC: White House Historical Association, 2008.
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - L Verge - 08-02-2016 04:03 PM
Bless you, Blaine. I have been citing Bill Seale's work for years now, especially on this forum. Unfortunately, I believe that modern researchers only think of one thing when "sewer" is mentioned -- and it's not rainwater.
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - SSlater - 08-02-2016 09:03 PM
(08-02-2016 04:03 PM)L Verge Wrote: Bless you, Blaine. I have been citing Bill Seale's work for years now, especially on this forum. Unfortunately, I believe that modern researchers only think of one thing when "sewer" is mentioned -- and it's not rainwater.Great News! It took us awhile - but we got a true answer. We still need to search more. To be honest, I never gave "rainwater" a thought. I could not believe that they were big enough to walk upright through them, and that they could develop sufficient fall to get the runoff to the river. That sounds like a good reason o stay off the lawn - it must have been "unlivable" with the stink. I need to see that book. Can I ask your Library to get the book and I will donate it to the Library? I wonder if they ever opened the windows in the White House.
That wet mushy base is not a good base to support an explosion. The explosion should be well supported to channel the force in the right direction. In the case of an underwater explosion, the upward direction is the weakest direction, so the force is expended upward and outward. The exploding device does not have to be in contact with the "hull". Enough of that!. (Send me the bill.)
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - L Verge - 08-03-2016 08:50 AM
(08-02-2016 09:03 PM)SSlater Wrote:(08-02-2016 04:03 PM)L Verge Wrote: Bless you, Blaine. I have been citing Bill Seale's work for years now, especially on this forum. Unfortunately, I believe that modern researchers only think of one thing when "sewer" is mentioned -- and it's not rainwater.Great News! It took us awhile - but we got a true answer. We still need to search more. To be honest, I never gave "rainwater" a thought. I could not believe that they were big enough to walk upright through them, and that they could develop sufficient fall to get the runoff to the river. That sounds like a good reason o stay off the lawn - it must have been "unlivable" with the stink. I need to see that book. Can I ask your Library to get the book and I will donate it to the Library? I wonder if they ever opened the windows in the White House.
That wet mushy base is not a good base to support an explosion. The explosion should be well supported to channel the force in the right direction. In the case of an underwater explosion, the upward direction is the weakest direction, so the force is expended upward and outward. The exploding device does not have to be in contact with the "hull". Enough of that!. (Send me the bill.)
John - The Hall Research Center may already have the book. If all you want are the pages referring to the Lincoln White House, we can copy those for you. Our librarian, however, is in the last few weeks of pregnancy and will be going on leave from August 10-October 1. We are already short-staffed, so we will be under even more pressure. Bear with us.
RE: Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP! - SSlater - 08-06-2016 09:52 PM
I sent away for material on the Fenian Brotherhood, in an effort to see if Thomas Harney joined up with them. The Fenians were an Irish Brotherhood in 1865, that wanted to capture Canada, and hold it for ransom. The ransom was to be freedom from England for the Irish people. It easy to see that they could use Harney's skills. And, just as easy to believe that he wanted to help them.
The reply came yesterday in the form of 86 pages of enlistment records. It will be some time before I finish a review of this material. In the mean time - I have sent for more!