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+--- Thread: doctors at lincoln's bedside (/thread-1897.html)
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - Thomas Kearney - 08-27-2015 04:24 PM
(02-27-2015 08:13 AM)Jim Garrett Wrote: I understand that NBC Nightly News anchor was also at Lincoln's deathbed.
He was
.
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - windband - 03-16-2017 07:22 AM
I recently acquired a large collection of Ephemera from the estate of Virginia Miller (daughter of 19th century white house doctor Dr. Thomas Miller), I wanted to share one of the documents of I came across on your forum. It it a letter to President Andrew Johnson from the Surgeon General's office requesting the release of the Dr. Major Cornelius Boyle. The letter includes over 30 signatures of DC area doctors in 1867 including at least four of the physician that were with Lincoln at Ford theater and the Petersen House Albert F King, Charles H.L. Liebermann, Charles M. Ford, and Jame C. Hall.
What is really fascinating to me about the letter is that Dr. Boyle was a major confederate spy (One of Robert E Lee favorites) and most likely a conspirator in the plot to kill Lincoln. If this info had been public knowledge at the time I would like to think the document would have a lot less signatures.
https://books.google.com/books?id=yZWIaUunq60C&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=cornelius+boyle+conspirator&source=bl&ots=petIWMFmy0&sig=Q7Syr6anh5TNfPdUnLBmBl4alTw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcst-5ldnSAhXGhSwKHRz4A4gQ6AEIJzAC#v=onepage&q=cornelius%20boyle%20conspirator&f=false
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - RJNorton - 03-16-2017 07:44 AM
Welcome to the forum, Dan! This is fascinating! Dr. Boyle has been previously mentioned on this forum by John Stanton (SSlater). In addition to David Keehn's book, I have also seen Boyle's name in Come Retribution and April '65.
Dr. Boyle was also one of the doctors who treated Charles Sumner after he was attacked in the Senate chamber by Preston Brooks in 1856.
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - Gene C - 03-16-2017 12:11 PM
I would think that if Boyle was such a good doctor, the confederacy would use him in that capacity rather than as a provost marshal.
"Boyle, a noted Washington medical doctor, was now provost marshal for northern Virginia and had commanded the Gordonville camp since 1862".
(David Keehn's "Knights of the Golden Circle", page 183, from link in post #62)
Seems like well after the war, the so called Confederate undercover operatives really grew in numbers. I'm not saying he wasn't a spy, but if the confederates had even just half the number of real spies as so many claimed to be, they might have won the war. (Just using McClellan math
)
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - windband - 03-17-2017 07:44 AM
What ever Boyle's role was very important to General Lee, according to the book April '65
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - L Verge - 03-18-2017 04:53 PM
(03-17-2017 07:44 AM)windband Wrote: What ever Boyle's role was very important to General Lee, according to the book April '65
I think the last sentence of that tells the tale - a center for clandestine operations. Gordonsville was one of the rail hubs during the war, and I believe that there was a hospital there also. Can anyone help fill in some blanks?
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - windband - 03-21-2017 01:44 PM
After going over some more of the documents I came across a note and signature of Dr. Robert K Stone on a paystub from the National Medical College in 1851. Just wanted to share.
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - Steve - 09-23-2017 10:48 AM
I found this interesting article from a year ago about the history of Dr. Bliss who claimed he was one of the doctors who treated Lincoln after he was shot:
http://nypost.com/2016/09/22/the-inept-doctor-who-killed-president-garfield/
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - JMadonna - 02-24-2018 08:43 PM
Does anyone know why, with such a capable group of surgeons available, treplanning was not tried?
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - Thomas Kearney - 02-25-2018 12:03 PM
I would like to know that too. It's been bugging me since I started writing my paper "Is There A Doctor In The House"
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - Gene C - 02-25-2018 01:42 PM
I would guess that didn't resort to trepanning since they knew his wound was fatal.
For information regarding trepanning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - Steve - 02-25-2018 01:47 PM
According to medical texts at the time, trepanning was seldom useful for treating penetrating bullet wounds to the head/brain. And the few patients who did survive had bullet wounds to the front of the brain, not the back as Lincoln had.
https://books.google.com/books?id=2VkBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=trepanning+bullet+wound+head&source=bl&ots=Ye87V-GYIE&sig=bEE-lkfo31i_YnMeTKA9qoubfvo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil0aOx1sHZAhWmm-AKHdVNBHoQ6AEwD3oECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=trepanning%20bullet%20wound%20head&f=false
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - JMadonna - 02-25-2018 05:37 PM
(02-25-2018 01:47 PM)Steve Wrote: According to medical texts at the time, trepanning was seldom useful for treating penetrating bullet wounds to the head/brain. And the few patients who did survive had bullet wounds to the front of the brain, not the back as Lincoln had.
I find it hard to believe that they didn't try because it was not recommended in a medical text at the time. I read where a couple of doctors tried giving Lincoln brandy for his head wound. This makes me question their actual competency.
Who was the doctor in charge of this group? Did he make the decision to do nothing? Or was there no one in charge and no one wanted to take responsibility?
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - Leon Greene - 02-25-2018 05:55 PM
(02-25-2018 05:37 PM)JMadonna Wrote:(02-25-2018 01:47 PM)Steve Wrote: According to medical texts at the time, trepanning was seldom useful for treating penetrating bullet wounds to the head/brain. And the few patients who did survive had bullet wounds to the front of the brain, not the back as Lincoln had.
I find it hard to believe that they didn't try because it was not recommended in a medical text at the time. I read where a couple of doctors tried giving Lincoln brandy for his head wound. This makes me question their actual competency.
Who was the doctor in charge of this group? Did he make the decision to do nothing? Or was there no one in charge and no one wanted to take responsibility?
Medicine and surgery in the 1860s - then, as now - did not have universally accepted protocols for various injuries. Treatment of battlefield wounds was evolving, and many techniques had been imported from surgical care during the recent Crimean War. A book published in 1870 reviewed the surgical techniques and outcomes during the Civil War. (The Medical and Surgical History of the War of the Rebellion, Part I, Volume II, Surgical History, Joseph K. Barnes, George A. Otis, Washington, Government Printing Office, 1870)
Regarding trepanning, or trephining, the book reports:
"One need not revert fifteen years in surgical literature to be convinced that an unfounded dread of the impossibility of an exit for the secretions of the wound were then considered proper indications for trepanning. The ample information which one of the most zealous advocates of trepanning, one who was an excellent surgeon as well as a truthful man, I mean Percivall Pott, has given us in regard to the effects of trepanning, leaves no doubt as to the theory that the access of air increases suppuration. In most cases of simple contusions, in which he trephined on account of the formation of pus internally, very little pus was found at the first operation; yet the symptoms were generally aggravated, and trepanning, was resorted to a second or third time, and not until the secondary operations were great quantities of pus disclosed. Thus, as usual, one mistake brought about another, and one ill-advised use of the trephine rendered its repetition necessary. The main symptoms which seemed to demand trephining, for the majority of surgeons addicted to the trephine, consisted in the stupor or insensibility of the patient. It really requires no small degree of firmness of conviction of the danger of the trephine to see a patient, not only for days but weeks, in a state of greater or less stupor or insensibility without resorting to the operation, when, sometimes, complete consciousness is restored immediately by a successful elevation of the depressed bone, or the removal of extravasated blood. It is not enough to remind one that patients with typhus often remain for weeks in a still deeper stupor, and yet gradually resume the use of their mental faculties; nor is it sufficient to recall the innumerable cases where trepanning, notwithstanding the apparent success of its purpose of elevating depressed bone, or removing extravasations, did not influence the restoration of consciousness, but where this was only gradually regained by means of an antiphlogistic treatment. One must have observed as often the successful cure of head injuries, without trepanning, to be enabled to acquire such accuracy of observation, as nearly every physician possesses in regard to fever patients. Would not every one be called a miserable quack now-a-days, who would give a typhus patient musk, camphor, or serpentaria on account of stupor? It will not be long before no favorable estimate will be had of any surgeon who will use the trepan on account of comatose conditions alone. The campaigns of 1849 and 1850 have, happily, given many young surgeons the opportunity to convince themselves, with their own eves, that one may look on a condition of semi-stupor for weeks without resorting to the trepan." (pp. 153-154, emphasis mine)
The technique is used today - often called creating "burr holes" - to release intracranial pressure most often caused by bleeding or infection. But the indications for its use in 1865 weren't carefully defined; hence, not used on President Lincoln. In addition, his wound was so massive the doctors probably realized that he was beyond help. Furthermore, the majority of cases of bullets penetrating the skull and brain were either fatal or caused total and permanent disability.
In the cases reviewed in this book, 2514/4350 (58%) patients with a gunshot wound to the cranium died (p. 307). Of all operations reported and described for a gunshot wound to the cranium, 220/900 (24%) were the trepanning technique (p. 309). Results of trepanning were reported for only 196 of those patients; 110 (56%) died.
Interestingly, this huge post-Civil War text referenced above did not include any mention of Lincoln's gunshot wound.
I suspect that your last suggestion was correct - no one wanted to take responsibility for this rather gruesome technique that had a very high death rate.
RE: doctors at lincoln's bedside - JMadonna - 02-25-2018 06:42 PM
(02-25-2018 05:55 PM)Leon Greene Wrote: I suspect that your last suggestion was correct - no one wanted to take responsibility for this rather gruesome technique that had a very high death rate.
I'll never forget the day Kennedy was shot. We were watching the TV when my brother-in-law, who was a young doctor at the time,remarked;
"I'd hate to be the intern on duty when they came in the door wheeling the president. I'd probably be hiding in the restroom."
I'll bet they all felt that way.
Yet, medically speaking the odds you quoted of surviving the procedure were higher than I would have guessed. Especially, when you're looking at a 100% certainty.