+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story (/thread-112.html)
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - BettyO - 08-08-2012 09:08 AM
(08-08-2012 09:00 AM)Gene C Wrote: Didn't Shelton's wife claim to be a spiritual medium? It could very well have been "ghost" written.
HA!! That's just what I just told Linda!! Yes, she was a medium and supposedly Mask for Treason was written by "channeling" Lew Powell's ghost! This all came out in a second book entitled The View from Eternity - the most convoluted thing I've ever attempted to read!
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - MaddieM - 08-08-2012 09:14 AM
(07-24-2012 07:41 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: Purely a personal choice-no right or wrong. Who do you feel was the most "tragic?" It could be someone you have great sympathy for. Some of the obvious choices might be Lincoln, himself-or Mrs. Lincoln. Others might include Mary Surratt, or one of the conspirators. Maybe its someone not so well known. Please share!
I need to read up more on this. I've just bought American Brutus but have yet to read it. So far, my vote goes to Lewis Powell. Despite the fact that he did the most damage aside from Booth, there's something about his story that has a real tragedy attached to it. Perhaps it's because he was not brought up to be so vicious, and kind of lost his way spiritually due to the war. I dunno. He cuts a very tragic figure for me. He was one of those strong, stalwart types, reliable to a fault Typical Taurus. My brother is like that. He'd never let you down and is solid as a rock. My OH shares the same birthday as Powell, and he's solid as rock too. I think he got seriously led astray, was misguided, naive, and paid the price. When you look at the rest of them, none of them deserved to die. Booth got what he deserved. I need to read up more about him.
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - Linda Anderson - 08-08-2012 09:18 AM
I am not using Shelton as a reference but E. H. Gore's book.
Shelton wrote, "The outcome of this undertaking [Mr. Powell reorganizing the Bethel Baptist Church] was described with as much compassion as Mr. W. H. Brack, the clerk, could manage and still tell the truth."
Then Shelton quotes Mr. Brack from the History of Orlando Baptists:
'Brother Powell was a good preacher and a very earnest Christian but addicted to whiskey. He was strict in his discipline and had some of the members turned out for non-attendance. The church became tired of his strict discipline and in October 1872 they called Rev. A. C. Tinnall as pastor.' History of Orlando Baptists: First Baptist Church. E. H. Gore."
.
If Mr. Powell did drink, I think people would be very understanding considering the tragedy he and his family endured.
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - MaddieM - 08-08-2012 09:24 AM
(08-08-2012 09:18 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote: I am not using Shelton as a reference but E. H. Gore's book.
Shelton wrote, "The outcome of this undertaking [Mr. Powell reorganizing the Bethel Baptist Church] was described with as much compassion as Mr. W. H. Brack, the clerk, could manage and still tell the truth."
Then Shelton quotes Mr. Brack from the History of Orlando Baptists:
'Brother Powell was a good preacher and a very earnest Christian but addicted to whiskey. He was strict in his discipline and had some of the members turned out for non-attendance. The church became tired of his strict discipline and in October 1872 they called Rev. A. C. Tinnall as pastor.' History of Orlando Baptists: First Baptist Church. E. H. Gore."
.
If Mr. Powell did drink, I think people would be very understanding considering the tragedy he and his family endured.
It would drive me to drink. His poor mum. You'd never ever get over that would you?
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - BettyO - 08-08-2012 09:30 AM
(08-08-2012 09:24 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:18 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote: I am not using Shelton as a reference but E. H. Gore's book.
Shelton wrote, "The outcome of this undertaking [Mr. Powell reorganizing the Bethel Baptist Church] was described with as much compassion as Mr. W. H. Brack, the clerk, could manage and still tell the truth."
Then Shelton quotes Mr. Brack from the History of Orlando Baptists:
'Brother Powell was a good preacher and a very earnest Christian but addicted to whiskey. He was strict in his discipline and had some of the members turned out for non-attendance. The church became tired of his strict discipline and in October 1872 they called Rev. A. C. Tinnall as pastor.' History of Orlando Baptists: First Baptist Church. E. H. Gore."
.
If Mr. Powell did drink, I think people would be very understanding considering the tragedy he and his family endured.
It would drive me to drink. His poor mum. You'd never ever get over that would you?
Hello, Maddy!
In the Fall of 1865, a Captain Newt was assigned to go to Florida to ascertain by Stanton if Lewis Payne was actually in fact, Lewis Powell. Newt traveled down to Live Oak and visited the family, claiming that Reverend Powell was an upstanding, quiet man who was composed and very much in control of his feelings, however Lew's mother was extremely upset by the visit and wouldn't even go into the parlor to meet him. He described Lew's mother as being "an extremely attractive woman" [she was 56 years old at the time] and further said that she appeared "inconsolable in her grief and possessed of strong maternal feeling." Lewis' mother supposedly wore mourning for the rest of her life, in addition to Lewis, her youngest, she had also lost another son, Oliver in the war and never got over the shock. Perfectly understandable. Never did see anything else regarding Lewis' father and any drinking. I'll have to check up on that!
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - MaddieM - 08-08-2012 09:34 AM
(08-08-2012 09:30 AM)BettyO Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:24 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:18 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote: I am not using Shelton as a reference but E. H. Gore's book.
Shelton wrote, "The outcome of this undertaking [Mr. Powell reorganizing the Bethel Baptist Church] was described with as much compassion as Mr. W. H. Brack, the clerk, could manage and still tell the truth."
Then Shelton quotes Mr. Brack from the History of Orlando Baptists:
'Brother Powell was a good preacher and a very earnest Christian but addicted to whiskey. He was strict in his discipline and had some of the members turned out for non-attendance. The church became tired of his strict discipline and in October 1872 they called Rev. A. C. Tinnall as pastor.' History of Orlando Baptists: First Baptist Church. E. H. Gore."
.
If Mr. Powell did drink, I think people would be very understanding considering the tragedy he and his family endured.
It would drive me to drink. His poor mum. You'd never ever get over that would you?
Hello, Maddy!
In the Fall of 1865, a Captain Newt was assigned to go to Florida to ascertain by Stanton if Lewis Payne was actually in fact, Lewis Powell. Newt traveled down to Live Oak and visited the family, claiming that Reverend Powell was an upstanding, quiet man who was composed and very much in control of his feelings, however Lew's mother was extremely upset by the visit and wouldn't even go into the parlor to meet him. He described Lew's mother as being "an extremely attractive woman" [she was 56 years old at the time] and further said that she appeared "inconsolable in her grief and possessed of strong maternal feeling." Lewis' mother supposedly wore mourning for the rest of her life and never got over the shock. Perfectly understandable. Never did see anything else regarding Lewis' father and any drinking. I'll have to check up on that!
They hanged her beautiful son. One can only imagine what that felt like. I'm sure stories are handed down through the generations via word of mouth. I think your book brought him back to life and gave us all a real insight into his humanity.
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - BettyO - 08-08-2012 09:38 AM
(08-08-2012 09:34 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:30 AM)BettyO Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:24 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:18 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote: I am not using Shelton as a reference but E. H. Gore's book.
Shelton wrote, "The outcome of this undertaking [Mr. Powell reorganizing the Bethel Baptist Church] was described with as much compassion as Mr. W. H. Brack, the clerk, could manage and still tell the truth."
Then Shelton quotes Mr. Brack from the History of Orlando Baptists:
'Brother Powell was a good preacher and a very earnest Christian but addicted to whiskey. He was strict in his discipline and had some of the members turned out for non-attendance. The church became tired of his strict discipline and in October 1872 they called Rev. A. C. Tinnall as pastor.' History of Orlando Baptists: First Baptist Church. E. H. Gore."
.
If Mr. Powell did drink, I think people would be very understanding considering the tragedy he and his family endured.
It would drive me to drink. His poor mum. You'd never ever get over that would you?
Hello, Maddy!
In the Fall of 1865, a Captain Newt was assigned to go to Florida to ascertain by Stanton if Lewis Payne was actually in fact, Lewis Powell. Newt traveled down to Live Oak and visited the family, claiming that Reverend Powell was an upstanding, quiet man who was composed and very much in control of his feelings, however Lew's mother was extremely upset by the visit and wouldn't even go into the parlor to meet him. He described Lew's mother as being "an extremely attractive woman" [she was 56 years old at the time] and further said that she appeared "inconsolable in her grief and possessed of strong maternal feeling." Lewis' mother supposedly wore mourning for the rest of her life and never got over the shock. Perfectly understandable. Never did see anything else regarding Lewis' father and any drinking. I'll have to check up on that!
They hanged her beautiful son. One can only imagine what that felt like. I'm sure stories are handed down through the generations via word of mouth. I think your book brought him back to life and gave us all a real insight into his humanity.
Thanks ever so much for your kind words, Maddie!
I have a Revised Second Edition of Alias coming out within the next year as well as going into Ebook format - LOTS of new documented information on Lew coming out in that as well.
Yes, the trauma of losing her adored youngest son as well as her other son, Oliver was supposedly very hard for Mrs Powell. A very tragic situation - and then for some cruel, vindictive idiot to send photographs of the tragedy to his parents - I'm sure that was too much to bear!
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - MaddieM - 08-08-2012 09:53 AM
(08-08-2012 09:38 AM)BettyO Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:34 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:30 AM)BettyO Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:24 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:18 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote: I am not using Shelton as a reference but E. H. Gore's book.
Shelton wrote, "The outcome of this undertaking [Mr. Powell reorganizing the Bethel Baptist Church] was described with as much compassion as Mr. W. H. Brack, the clerk, could manage and still tell the truth."
Then Shelton quotes Mr. Brack from the History of Orlando Baptists:
'Brother Powell was a good preacher and a very earnest Christian but addicted to whiskey. He was strict in his discipline and had some of the members turned out for non-attendance. The church became tired of his strict discipline and in October 1872 they called Rev. A. C. Tinnall as pastor.' History of Orlando Baptists: First Baptist Church. E. H. Gore."
.
If Mr. Powell did drink, I think people would be very understanding considering the tragedy he and his family endured.
It would drive me to drink. His poor mum. You'd never ever get over that would you?
Hello, Maddy!
In the Fall of 1865, a Captain Newt was assigned to go to Florida to ascertain by Stanton if Lewis Payne was actually in fact, Lewis Powell. Newt traveled down to Live Oak and visited the family, claiming that Reverend Powell was an upstanding, quiet man who was composed and very much in control of his feelings, however Lew's mother was extremely upset by the visit and wouldn't even go into the parlor to meet him. He described Lew's mother as being "an extremely attractive woman" [she was 56 years old at the time] and further said that she appeared "inconsolable in her grief and possessed of strong maternal feeling." Lewis' mother supposedly wore mourning for the rest of her life and never got over the shock. Perfectly understandable. Never did see anything else regarding Lewis' father and any drinking. I'll have to check up on that!
They hanged her beautiful son. One can only imagine what that felt like. I'm sure stories are handed down through the generations via word of mouth. I think your book brought him back to life and gave us all a real insight into his humanity.
Thanks ever so much for your kind words, Maddie!
I have a Revised Second Edition of Alias coming out within the next year as well as going into Ebook format - LOTS of new documented information on Lew coming out in that as well.
Yes, the trauma of losing her adored youngest son as well as her other son, Oliver was supposedly very hard for Mrs Powell. A very tragic situation - and then for some cruel, vindictive idiot to send photographs of the tragedy to his parents - I'm sure that was too much to bear!
Who did that? Did they send those photos of the actual hanging?
(08-08-2012 09:38 AM)BettyO Wrote: Yes, the trauma of losing her adored youngest son as well as her other son, Oliver was supposedly very hard for Mrs Powell. A very tragic situation - and then for some cruel, vindictive idiot to send photographs of the tragedy to his parents - I'm sure that was too much to bear!
I get the feeling he lied about his name etc, to protect his family? Is that right? He was the only one who did that out of the four of them. He seemed to keep tight lipped about lots of things right up until the end. Some might say to protect his fellow conspirators, but most likely to protect his family, I would think. That seems in keeping with his whole personality. Of them all, he seemed the most honourable, despite his 'dishonourable' attack on Seward.
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - Gene C - 08-08-2012 10:14 AM
I can't even get up and go get a cup of coffee, without coming back and feeling hopelessly behind in this conversation
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - MaddieM - 08-08-2012 10:19 AM
(08-08-2012 10:14 AM)Gene C Wrote: I can't even get up and go get a cup of coffee, without coming back and feeling hopelessly behind in this conversation
I'm wondering if you guys in the States are all in bed? It's currently 20 mins past four in the afternoon here in sunny Manchester.
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - BettyO - 08-08-2012 10:35 AM
(08-08-2012 09:53 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:38 AM)BettyO Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:34 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:30 AM)BettyO Wrote:(08-08-2012 09:24 AM)MaddieM Wrote: It would drive me to drink. His poor mum. You'd never ever get over that would you?
Hello, Maddy!
In the Fall of 1865, a Captain Newt was assigned to go to Florida to ascertain by Stanton if Lewis Payne was actually in fact, Lewis Powell. Newt traveled down to Live Oak and visited the family, claiming that Reverend Powell was an upstanding, quiet man who was composed and very much in control of his feelings, however Lew's mother was extremely upset by the visit and wouldn't even go into the parlor to meet him. He described Lew's mother as being "an extremely attractive woman" [she was 56 years old at the time] and further said that she appeared "inconsolable in her grief and possessed of strong maternal feeling." Lewis' mother supposedly wore mourning for the rest of her life and never got over the shock. Perfectly understandable. Never did see anything else regarding Lewis' father and any drinking. I'll have to check up on that!
They hanged her beautiful son. One can only imagine what that felt like. I'm sure stories are handed down through the generations via word of mouth. I think your book brought him back to life and gave us all a real insight into his humanity.
Thanks ever so much for your kind words, Maddie!
I have a Revised Second Edition of Alias coming out within the next year as well as going into Ebook format - LOTS of new documented information on Lew coming out in that as well.
Yes, the trauma of losing her adored youngest son as well as her other son, Oliver was supposedly very hard for Mrs Powell. A very tragic situation - and then for some cruel, vindictive idiot to send photographs of the tragedy to his parents - I'm sure that was too much to bear!
Who did that? Did they send those photos of the actual hanging?
(08-08-2012 09:38 AM)BettyO Wrote: Yes, the trauma of losing her adored youngest son as well as her other son, Oliver was supposedly very hard for Mrs Powell. A very tragic situation - and then for some cruel, vindictive idiot to send photographs of the tragedy to his parents - I'm sure that was too much to bear!
I get the feeling he lied about his name etc, to protect his family? Is that right? He was the only one who did that out of the four of them. He seemed to keep tight lipped about lots of things right up until the end. Some might say to protect his fellow conspirators, but most likely to protect his family, I would think. That seems in keeping with his whole personality. Of them all, he seemed the most honourable, despite his 'dishonourable' attack on Seward.
I agree, Mattie! He was trying to protect "his good name" as well as his parents. He adored his mother....and had begged one detective to "Please don't tell my mama!"
Yes, some idiot actually did send the photos of the hanging of Lewis to his parents - according to the news report "showing Lewis in every agonizing pose while hanging." How cruel and hateful can people be?
(08-08-2012 10:19 AM)MaddieM Wrote:(08-08-2012 10:14 AM)Gene C Wrote: I can't even get up and go get a cup of coffee, without coming back and feeling hopelessly behind in this conversation
I'm wondering if you guys in the States are all in bed? It's currently 20 mins past four in the afternoon here in sunny Manchester.
There is about 6 hours difference, Mattie! It's currently 11:39 am here on the East Coast (VA) cloudy and ghastly humid - we're in the full strength of a VA summer (Hate it! And I was born and raised here) Currently 85 degrees with 70 % humidity - very high....and going to get hotter. Three weeks ago it was 105 degrees with 100% humidity.....
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - LincolnMan - 09-09-2012 06:48 AM
I came across this quote by Don E. Fehrenbacher:
"Lincoln is the supremely tragic figure of a tragic war, and not only because of the way his life ended. He rose to the presidency from deeper obscurity than any of his predecessors, only to find himself in the grip of a deadly historical irony. That is, his own unexpected and dazzling personal triumph in 1860 had signalized-indeed, to some degree that caused-the onset of national calamity. For a man sensitive enough to perceive the irony and its bloody implications, there was bound to be, always, sorrow on the bosom of the earth."
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - HerbS - 09-09-2012 07:37 AM
Bill,Great Post!! Why? Because it makes sense!
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - Claudine - 09-09-2012 07:55 AM
I could write a long list...but if I was forced to decide, I would chose Seward. In the outcome of the assassination he lost so much. His wife, his beloved daughter, almost his son.
RE: Your personal choice of "most tragic" character in the assassination story - LincolnMan - 09-09-2012 09:02 AM
Claudine: you're not alone in your choice of Seward. For all the reasons mentioned, he certainly qualifies.