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RE: Lincoln's embalmment - L Verge - 11-29-2014 10:48 AM
Embalming is the preferred method here. If you intend to open the casket to viewing, the laws of Maryland at least require the body to be embalmed.
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - Eva Elisabeth - 11-29-2014 11:11 AM
That's interesting, Laurie! Here it even underlies restrictions! What chemical agent is used in the US?
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - loetar44 - 11-29-2014 11:23 AM
In the Netherlands, embalming of corpses is only permitted in exceptional cases. This is in contrast with thanatopraxy (where the body is preserved for only up to 10 days), which may be used in the Netherlands on each deceased. Embalming is allowed in the Netherlands for members of the Royal Family, on deceased who are transferred abroad and on deceased who donate their body to science. When embalmed, the embalmer uses a higher percentage of formalin. In thanatopraxy the component formalin is very low (0.5%).The rest of the embalming fluid consists of coloring agents, salts and other minerals in a given composition.
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - Gene C - 11-29-2014 11:25 AM
That is an interesting question Eva.
I wonder what the Kardashians use?
Polyurethane?
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - loetar44 - 11-29-2014 02:24 PM
I have another question re. AL’s cranial autopsy. Dr. Curtis wrote that the entire brain was removed: “... as I was lifting the latter from the cavity of the skull, suddenly the bullet dropped out through my fingers …” and that “... silently, in one corner of the room, I prepared the brain for weighing…”. My question: where are the brains of Lincoln now? Were they placed back in the skull?
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - Eva Elisabeth - 11-29-2014 02:56 PM
(11-29-2014 11:23 AM)loetar44 Wrote: Embalming is allowed in the Netherlands for members of the Royal Family, on deceased who are transferred abroad and on deceased who donate their body to science.Despite the Royal Family due to the lack thereof the same here - and I believe preserving for up to 10 days with low %age is allowed, too.
Nowadays' restrictions are for ecological reasons - sooner or later the formaldehyde would pollute the soil and ground water. Historically I think it has never become a practice in Germany for religious reasons. God's will - according to Gen 3: 19 is: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" and Ecclesiastes 12 :7: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
In both, Lutheran and Catholic burial ceremonies here, after the casket has been lowered into the grave, the pastor always closes citing the words from Gen. 3:19: "Now thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return", and each mourner tosses a handful of dirt on the casket to symbolize the deceased returning to the earth as a final resting place. (This wouldn't make sense if the body was hindered from return.)
(11-29-2014 02:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote: Were they placed back in the skull?AFAIK yes - now where did I read this? Perhaps in 20 Days?!
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - RJNorton - 11-29-2014 03:12 PM
Hi Eva. Twenty Days includes what Dr. Curtis wrote:
"...Dr. Woodward and I proceeded to open the head and remove the brain down to the track of the ball. The latter had entered a little to the left of the median line at the back of the head, had passed almost directly forwards through the center of the brain and lodged. Not finding it readily, we proceeded to remove the entire brain, when, as I was lifting the latter from the cavity of the skull, suddenly the bullet dropped out through my fingers and fell, breaking the solemn silence of the room with its clatter, into an empty basin that was standing beneath. There it lay upon the white china, a little black mass no bigger than the end of my finger – dull, motionless and harmless, yet the cause of such mighty changes in the world's history as we may perhaps never realize.
....silently, in one corner of the room, I prepared the brain for weighing. As I looked at the mass of soft gray and white substance that was carefully washing, it was impossible to realize that it was that mere clay upon whose workings, but the day before, rested the hopes of the nation. I felt more profoundly impressed than ever with the mystery of that unknown something which may be named 'vital spark' as well as anything else, whose absence of presence makes all the immeasurable difference between an inert mass of matter owing obedience to no laws but those governing the physical and chemical forces of the universe, and on the other hand, living brain by whose silent, subtle machinery a world may be ruled. The weighing of the brain...gave approximate results only, since there was had been some loss of brain substance, in consequence of the wound, during the hours of life after the shooting. But the figures, as they were, seemed to show that the brain weight was not above the ordinary for a man of Lincoln's size."
But I am not seeing anything specific about what happened to the brain after weighing.
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - Eva Elisabeth - 11-29-2014 05:43 PM
(11-29-2014 03:12 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Hi Eva. Twenty Days includes what Dr. Curtis wrote:Thank you, Roger. Well, I am very sure I read somewhere it was replaced into the skull (and this would make sense to me), I'll try to find.
"...Dr. Woodward and I proceeded to open the head and remove the brain down to the track of the ball. The latter had entered a little to the left of the median line at the back of the head, had passed almost directly forwards through the center of the brain and lodged. Not finding it readily, we proceeded to remove the entire brain, when, as I was lifting the latter from the cavity of the skull, suddenly the bullet dropped out through my fingers and fell, breaking the solemn silence of the room with its clatter, into an empty basin that was standing beneath. There it lay upon the white china, a little black mass no bigger than the end of my finger – dull, motionless and harmless, yet the cause of such mighty changes in the world's history as we may perhaps never realize.
....silently, in one corner of the room, I prepared the brain for weighing. As I looked at the mass of soft gray and white substance that was carefully washing, it was impossible to realize that it was that mere clay upon whose workings, but the day before, rested the hopes of the nation. I felt more profoundly impressed than ever with the mystery of that unknown something which may be named 'vital spark' as well as anything else, whose absence of presence makes all the immeasurable difference between an inert mass of matter owing obedience to no laws but those governing the physical and chemical forces of the universe, and on the other hand, living brain by whose silent, subtle machinery a world may be ruled. The weighing of the brain...gave approximate results only, since there was had been some loss of brain substance, in consequence of the wound, during the hours of life after the shooting. But the figures, as they were, seemed to show that the brain weight was not above the ordinary for a man of Lincoln's size."
But I am not seeing anything specific about what happened to the brain after weighing.
(11-29-2014 02:56 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:Sorry, I have to withdraw this as a statement as I can't find what I seemed to recall. (I would still consider this the most likely modus operandi.)(11-29-2014 02:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote: Were they placed back in the skull?AFAIK yes - now where did I read this? Perhaps in 20 Days?!
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - L Verge - 11-29-2014 06:04 PM
(11-29-2014 11:23 AM)loetar44 Wrote: In the Netherlands, embalming of corpses is only permitted in exceptional cases. This is in contrast with thanatopraxy (where the body is preserved for only up to 10 days), which may be used in the Netherlands on each deceased. Embalming is allowed in the Netherlands for members of the Royal Family, on deceased who are transferred abroad and on deceased who donate their body to science. When embalmed, the embalmer uses a higher percentage of formalin. In thanatopraxy the component formalin is very low (0.5%).The rest of the embalming fluid consists of coloring agents, salts and other minerals in a given composition.
Typical embalming fluid contains a mixture of formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, ethanol, humectants, and wetting agents and other solvents that can be used. The formaldehyde content generally ranges from 5 to 35 percent and the ethanol content may range from 9 to 56 percent. Source is a Wiki site.
And that's as far as I'm going to go on this subject except to add another personal experience. For nearly ten years, Surratt House sponsored an In Mourning exhibit during the month of July in recognition of the death of Mrs. Surratt. From coffin in the parlor to draped mirrors and portraits to funeral food, and a magnificent display of mourning memorabilia, we covered it all.
In preparation for this, our committee of four arranged a visit with the Lee Funeral Home in D.C., an establishment that had been in business sine the mid-1800s. Their facility was a museum in its own right, and I saw things that I never wanted to see and heard things that I would rather not know. As we piled in the car to make our escape, I remember declaring that, if my mother were to die that night, there was no way an undertaker would touch her! I was prepared to put her in the back seat of my car, drive to our private cemetery, and bury her myself...
This was just a few years after Jessica Mitford wrote her blasting book about the funeral home practices of scamming money from the grief-stricken family. I didn't get that vibe - I just didn't like what was rather macabre to me.
When my mother died five years ago, the funeral director was very kind and gracious, and the mortician did his/her job properly, and I was pleased. BTW: did you know that there is a difference between a funeral director and a mortician?
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - Hess1865 - 11-29-2014 09:57 PM
I'm almost afraid to ask what the difference is.....
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - L Verge - 11-30-2014 09:07 AM
Depending on the size of the establishment, one person can serve in both capacities. However, the general distinction is that the funeral director is the "customer service" agent who assists you in planning the funeral and seeing that the service is run properly. The mortician is the one who is licensed to perform the embalming process.
It would be interesting to see how many in the business today don't mind the old term of "undertaker."
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - Gene C - 11-30-2014 09:49 AM
It's my theory that eating food with lots of preservatives makes you look younger than you really are and also makes embalming process easier.
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - loetar44 - 12-02-2014 03:38 PM
From a Dodge Chemical Co. publication entitled “New Light on the Embalming of President Lincoln” by Seabury Quinn (1910 ?): “In collaboration with Frank T. Sands, "undertaker", the Messrs. M. E. & J. W. Harvey, (also undertakers"), were busy designing and making a coffin while Harry P. Cattell was engaged in his professional work”
Cattell was Lincoln’s actual embalmer. The embalment took place at / after noon April 15, 1865 immediately after the cranial autopsy. Now I wonder, when was Lincoln’s coffin ready? I suspect that there was some time needed to make the coffin and it make sense to me that the coffin was not earlier ready than April 16 or April 17. In the evening of April 17 Lincon’s coffin was placed in the East Room.
Does someone know when the coffin was ready? And where was the body of Lincoln between embalment and coffin? I suspect in the Prince of Wales Room ?
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - loetar44 - 12-27-2014 05:04 PM
(11-29-2014 05:43 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:(11-29-2014 03:12 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Hi Eva. Twenty Days includes what Dr. Curtis wrote:Thank you, Roger. Well, I am very sure I read somewhere it was replaced into the skull (and this would make sense to me), I'll try to find.
"...Dr. Woodward and I proceeded to open the head and remove the brain down to the track of the ball. The latter had entered a little to the left of the median line at the back of the head, had passed almost directly forwards through the center of the brain and lodged. Not finding it readily, we proceeded to remove the entire brain, when, as I was lifting the latter from the cavity of the skull, suddenly the bullet dropped out through my fingers and fell, breaking the solemn silence of the room with its clatter, into an empty basin that was standing beneath. There it lay upon the white china, a little black mass no bigger than the end of my finger – dull, motionless and harmless, yet the cause of such mighty changes in the world's history as we may perhaps never realize.
....silently, in one corner of the room, I prepared the brain for weighing. As I looked at the mass of soft gray and white substance that was carefully washing, it was impossible to realize that it was that mere clay upon whose workings, but the day before, rested the hopes of the nation. I felt more profoundly impressed than ever with the mystery of that unknown something which may be named 'vital spark' as well as anything else, whose absence of presence makes all the immeasurable difference between an inert mass of matter owing obedience to no laws but those governing the physical and chemical forces of the universe, and on the other hand, living brain by whose silent, subtle machinery a world may be ruled. The weighing of the brain...gave approximate results only, since there was had been some loss of brain substance, in consequence of the wound, during the hours of life after the shooting. But the figures, as they were, seemed to show that the brain weight was not above the ordinary for a man of Lincoln's size."
But I am not seeing anything specific about what happened to the brain after weighing.
(11-29-2014 02:56 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:Sorry, I have to withdraw this as a statement as I can't find what I seemed to recall. (I would still consider this the most likely modus operandi.)(11-29-2014 02:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote: Were they placed back in the skull?AFAIK yes - now where did I read this? Perhaps in 20 Days?!
I just found this:
The New York Tribune, April 27, 1865 gives a contemporary account of the funeral train trip from Albany to Buffalo and the arrival at Buffalo. In a second dispatch is said the following:
“As erroneous statements have been in the press, it is necessary to say on the authority of the embalmer and undertaker, that no perceptible change has taken place in the body of the late President since we left Washington. The Washington physicians removed a part of the brain only for the autopsy BUT THIS WAS REPLACED, so that no part of the body whatever is now deficient."
RE: Lincoln's embalmment - LincolnToddFan - 12-27-2014 06:01 PM
(11-29-2014 02:24 PM)loetar44 Wrote: I have another question re. AL’s cranial autopsy. Dr. Curtis wrote that the entire brain was removed: “... as I was lifting the latter from the cavity of the skull, suddenly the bullet dropped out through my fingers …” and that “... silently, in one corner of the room, I prepared the brain for weighing…”. My question: where are the brains of Lincoln now? Were they placed back in the skull?
This was one of my first questions when I joined the Forum last summer. Someone(don't remember who) replied that AL's shattered brain was more than likely disposed of after autopsy.