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+--- Thread: John Surratt (/thread-895.html)
RE: John Surratt - J. Beckert - 05-07-2013 06:43 AM
Would her financial situation be so dire if she was the hub of CSA activity?
RE: John Surratt - Gene C - 05-07-2013 07:00 AM
It would be if they paid her in confederate money
RE: John Surratt - John Stanton - 05-08-2013 12:02 AM
Re. Post 30. Your question opens up a whole new Ball Game. We know that SOMEONE knew how to bomb the White House, but we were never told who it was. To answer your question, Harney was to report to him (or Her). Lacking any clues, would you consider Frank Stringfellow? He was a clever, trusted agent, and was in D.C.at that time, but we never learned what his mission was. About the time Harney was due in Washington and didn't show up, Stringfellow bailed out - and crossed the Potomac the same night that Booth Crossed. Also he had the help of Thomas Jones. Stringfellow was the kind of agent who could concieve a bombing, but didn't have the explosives to do the job. (See "Stringfellow of the 4th").
RE: John Surratt - JMadonna - 05-08-2013 06:15 AM
According to my notes Harney was sent out from Richmond on April 1. This was the same day that Stringfellow's cover was blown and he started his escape. Stringfellow certainly was a man I would trust for such a mission. I think you may have nailed it John.
RE: John Surratt - Jane Singer - 05-08-2013 11:24 AM
(05-08-2013 06:15 AM)JMadonna Wrote: According to my notes Harney was sent out from Richmond on April 1. This was the same day that Stringfellow's cover was blown and he started his escape. Stringfellow certainly was a man I would trust for such a mission. I think you may have nailed it John.
Interesting thought, John. While going back over my own notes, I am pondering this ... Someone on the ground in DC must have communicated to Harney or his handlers that there was to be a cabinet meeting on April 10th. George Adzerodt alluded to this in his "confession." On April 9th, Lincoln was returning to DC so the timing of the operation had to be spot on. Who might that have been? And how would the communication have occurred? Not just food for thought, but a banquet!
RE: John Surratt - JMadonna - 05-08-2013 02:34 PM
In Come Retribution, Tidwell et al speculate that April 7-10 was when Lee was supposed to break out and abandon Richmond. They suggest that the explosion was supposed to be a fire in the rear to help Lee.
I believe that the Cabinet had a standing weekly appointment date, which would have been the ideal time for an attack. But I could be wrong.
RE: John Surratt - John Stanton - 05-08-2013 03:15 PM
This is not a LINCOLN subject, but when you see what I found TODAY, you will understand why I put it here. I was checking on Frank Stringfellow in the Census, etc. and I found out that he had a brother named JOHN STANTON STRINGFELLOW. Don't tell anybody, but I am a bit shaken!
RE: John Surratt - John Stanton - 05-17-2013 07:26 PM
I'm off and running on researching Stringfellow. I went to Culpeper for a little "boots on the ground" research. I now know the name Stringfellow used when he was in Alexandria, another name later in D.C. and the name of the Dentist that trained him to be a Dental Technician. I found his home at Raccoon Ford, etc. Big item - The "Cover Story" they used for his trip to D.C. (SENT BY DAVIS) He was supposed "to visit the Embassy of the neutral nations, and convince them to support the South, and thus end the war". I didn't laugh out loud, but that is lame. A Government would not send a Unknown Private, from an obscure Cavalry Unit, to talk to Embassadors, about "Chnaging sides" They would have sent the Sectretary of State, or someone of that ilk. In passing, Stringfellow blew his cover when someone proposed a toast to Lincoln, and he would not participate, but did propose a toast to Davis, AND HE STARTED RUNNING. He crossed the Potomac 21 days later. Harney was still enroute to D.C. when Stringfellow fouled up. Stupid, I'd say. (He may not have known that Harney was coming.) I still think he was the contact for Harney. I'll keep you informed as my research develops.
RE: John Surratt - Jim Garrett - 05-17-2013 07:43 PM
(05-17-2013 07:26 PM)John Stanton Wrote: I'm off and running on researching Stringfellow. I went to Culpeper for a little "boots on the ground" research. I now know the name Stringfellow used when he was in Alexandria, another name later in D.C. and the name of the Dentist that trained him to be a Dental Technician. I found his home at Raccoon Ford, etc. Big item - The "Cover Story" they used for his trip to D.C. (SENT BY DAVIS) He was supposed "to visit the Embassy of the neutral nations, and convince them to support the South, and thus end the war". I didn't laugh out loud, but that is lame. A Government would not send a Unknown Private, from an obscure Cavalry Unit, to talk to Embassadors, about "Chnaging sides" They would have sent the Sectretary of State, or someone of that ilk. In passing, Stringfellow blew his cover when someone proposed a toast to Lincoln, and he would not participate, but did propose a toast to Davis, AND HE STARTED RUNNING. He crossed the Potomac 21 days later. Harney was still enroute to D.C. when Stringfellow fouled up. Stupid, I'd say. (He may not have known that Harney was coming.) I still think he was the contact for Harney. I'll keep you informed as my research develops.Wow John, I was in Culpepper yesterday!
RE: John Surratt - BettyO - 05-17-2013 07:53 PM
Quote:I'm off and running on researching Stringfellow.
Frank Stringfellow supposedly also knew Powell when the latter was riding with Mosby - if I remember correctly, it's in the book, Stringfellow of the Fourth - can't remember. But it does go to show that they were apparently all working along the same lines -
RE: John Surratt - JMadonna - 05-18-2013 12:40 PM
When he was caught he began eating the notes he had on his person. The one thing he couldn't dispose of was a map of Washington's defenses that was in the lining of his coat. Why at that late a date would he have had a map if the Confederacy had no army or plans to exploit any weakness?
Probably to sneak in Harney and his crew for his mission.
RE: John Surratt - John Stanton - 05-18-2013 02:04 PM
(05-18-2013 12:40 PM)JMadonna Wrote: When he was caught he began eating the notes he had on his person. The one thing he couldn't dispose of was a map of Washington's defenses that was in the lining of his coat. Why at that late a date would he have had a map if the Confederacy had no army or plans to exploit any weakness?A Map isn't necessariy intended solely for the use of a whole army, ONE MAN (or woman) could use that map. (Ask Powell if he would like to have a map.) A full map of Washington could direct a man to a target, or tell him how to stay away from a Danger Zone. When Stringfellow blew his cover- did he do it on purpose? Was he ready to leave Washington, and he wanted the chase to be for him? It is difficult for me to think Stringfellow got careless. Was there another plan afloat, that needed the map? If the map was in the lining of his coat, it was not readily available to him, so it must have been for some other purpose. That needs to be studied, so that it fits into the entire scheme.
Probably to sneak in Harney and his crew for his mission.
...another thought struck me. Are you aware that the South did have an Army - in hiding? Hiding in the Elmira Prison. IMO Surratt's mission was one part of an immense plan to free those men, and then led by Gen. E. G. Lee (in Canada), march out of Canada, link with the Copperheads, (if they could get anyone to respond )-(( that's another story)), and with the North in disarray - Lincoln was to be eliminated by Easter, they might be able to negotiate a Treaty. I think there was a big plan, that we are not aware of. There were a lot of Spooks, doing a lot of things. Unfortunately for them, not every trick worked - and they lost. I read somewhere, I think it was in that book that a guy named Benjamin wrote about the St. Albans Raiders. In it he described a big plan by Thompson,et. al, to form an army, and attack in the "Northwest Conspiracy' area. I consider this Benjamin guy to be "Prime Source". He described what was going on day by day - as he saw it. It would be helpful if some more researchers dug in that "trash pile", to see if more can be found. A perfect solution would be for a "Round Table" group to make Canada their project, and find out what really happened.
RE: John Surratt - Bill Richter - 05-18-2013 03:14 PM
I disagree that the CSA really had an army in Elmira. Most of the Rebs there were little better off physically than the Yanks at Andersonville. Efforts top raise an army from escaped prisoners who had made it to Canada had failed in 1864. Most wanted simply to go home, as Thomas Hines and John Yates Beall found out. And the cooperation of the Copperheads proved to be a lot of talk and no action before the Election of 1864 in Illinois.
RE: John Surratt - JMadonna - 05-18-2013 03:53 PM
(05-18-2013 02:04 PM)John Stanton Wrote: When Stringfellow blew his cover- did he do it on purpose? Was he ready to leave Washington, and he wanted the chase to be for him? It is difficult for me to think Stringfellow got careless.
...another thought struck me. Are you aware that the South did have an Army - in hiding? Hiding in the Elmira Prison. IMO Surratt's mission was one part of an immense plan to free those men, and then led by Gen. E. G. Lee (in Canada), march out of Canada, link with the Copperheads, (if they could get anyone to respond
I believe that the story of Stringfellow refusing to drink a toast to Lincoln was an embellishment told by Stringfellow himself in later years to impress his audience. I too find it difficult to think that he would be so careless.
There was not much left of the Confederate operation by the time Lee arrived in January. IMO he got the position because he was a Virginian and a Lee. Since Virginia was all that was effectively left of the Confederacy the Lee family was assigned to keep the door open for the escape of the Confederate Hierarchy.
RE: John Surratt - BettyO - 05-19-2013 06:32 AM
Quote:I disagree that the CSA really had an army in Elmira. Most of the Rebs there were little better off physically than the Yanks at Andersonville. Efforts top raise an army from escaped prisoners who had made it to Canada had failed in 1864. Most wanted simply to go home, as Thomas Hines and John Yates Beall found out. And the cooperation of the Copperheads proved to be a lot of talk and no action before the Election of 1864 in Illinois.
I have to agree, Bill. I really don't think that there was any type of "Confederate army" in Elmira. These guys were in poor condition; poorly fed and dress as well as disease ridden. The last thing on their minds was to fight and I think that all they wanted to do was go home!