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RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - RJNorton - 10-22-2012 12:15 PM
Kate Larson asked a question that I don't think anyone answered. She said, "However, that doesn't preclude Booth coming - could the pistols have been stashed outside?"
If the answer is "yes," then this would explain Weichmann not being aware of a possible 10:30 stop by Booth. Could Mary have hidden Booth's stuff under the stairway after the 9:00 visit? Was it dark under there? Was there a dark alley in back of the boardinghouse?
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Gene C - 10-22-2012 12:22 PM
I wouldn't want to jump over the box railing to the stage with two loaded pistols, whether they were in a holster or in my boots. I would worry that they could become dislodged or misfire.
What seems plausable to me is John Fazio's comments about saddle bags or Herold having them (the guns).
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - J. Beckert - 10-22-2012 12:25 PM
Laurie and Gene - Hazleton's description of Booth in the theater states he was surprised to see Booth dressed as he was on such a gala night - wearing a dark felt slouch hat and high riding boots. That leads me to believe the boots were pulled over his pants - just as they would have to be for riding.
I think all these theories are plausible (that's the word of the day, I think) but I favor Booth being armed with everything and ready to go. If you carry a gun and intend to use it, you should always carry two. A misfire, malfunction, jam, etc. all have to be considered if you get into a shootout. If that Deringer went "click", Booth would be in quite a mess. I think he was familiar enough with firearms to realize that.
Don't feel bad if folks question your theory, Bill. It is indeed a possibility. (I just realized you have 4 college degrees and I have a High School diploma - and we both get our tails handed to us on this forum every so often!)
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - HerbS - 10-22-2012 12:42 PM
Bill,You have the unique ability"to think out of the box".As a retired teacher of History,I survived by being a good listener.I have read your books and you have always held my interest.It kind of goes with the famous-Yogi Berra quote-"If there is a fork in the road-Take it!"Please Get Well Soon!
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Laurie Verge - 10-22-2012 12:52 PM
Wow, John Fazio. I knew that you can come out firing double-barreled shotguns after I had to take some grief from a question/statement you made from the audience at last year's Surratt conference. However, you may have outdone yourself in your posting here!
Maybe it's the school teacher in me, but I never cut people off at the knees when they are thinking through legitimate questions. And trust me, in the forty years I have worked at Surratt House, I have been hit with every plausible or stupid theory that you can imagine. Isn't it the scientific principle to pose a theory and then work to prove it? It seems to me that that is what other posters here have done.
And, exactly what verifies your statement that no one in the Mudd household would have given Booth the weapons? What about the doctor himself? I can't prove that he did, but I don't think you can prove that he didn't.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - KLarson - 10-22-2012 01:43 PM
Thanks Roger for re-asking my question about the possibility of the revolvers being hidden outside the Surratt house. Upon reflection, however, I think that while it could have been possible, given there was a back yard/alley where the privy was and where, we assume, Powell-as-laborer was supposedly going to dig a ditch. But, if Booth was high-tailing it out of the theater district, I would imagine that his horse would have made a heck of a lot of noise racing up the streets near the boarding house. Someone would have heard those hooves clacking - yes, no? I can't see him casually walking his horse up to the house. And, as was pointed out by someone else, who would have held his horse? Weichmann's room was also on the backside of the house - wouldn't he have heard someone? Just doesn't seem to fit. Plausible, yes, probable, no.
No one answered my question about why would Mary have bullet moulds and percussion caps in her dresser, though.
Booth's hat seems less of an issue. And I agree with Laurie, Mudd could have easily given Booth guns previously left there. It would also help explain even more so his hesitancy to reveal he had seen Booth that night. It's one thing to stabilize a broken leg, another to provide weapons. If Lloyd had provided them at the Surratt Tavern, why wouldn't he have testified to it like he did everything else? I don't recall Lloyd mentioning Herold going into the barn. Is this verified?
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Laurie Verge - 10-22-2012 01:48 PM
Joe, I had forgotten about Hazelton's description of Booth's attire. That makes sense that he came prepared to ride hard and fast. I have never worn a slouch hat, but I have always been of the opinion that it was pulled down more towards the ears and more secure on the head.
Jim Garrett - your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to put on white gloves, convince the Ford's curator to let you examine the boot, and report back to us as to any pockets on the inside.
Seems to me that Joe's remembering the Hazelton statement and the possibility of examining Booth's boot might provide the factual information required?
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Gene C - 10-22-2012 01:52 PM
If Booth broke his leg at the theater, would he have been able to dismount his horse, walk up and down the steps at Mrs. Surratt's boarding house, and then remount his horse? And do it by himself?
Who lived in the basement level of the house?
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - J. Beckert - 10-22-2012 02:00 PM
If Booth did not have the revolvers on him in Washington, that means he had only a knife until he (A.) Eventually met up with Herold, who had the guns, or (B.) Was without a firearm until he got to the Mudd's, some 30 miles away. If Herold had the guns and had gone astray as Powell did, Booth would be without a gun altogether. I'll buy the boardinghouse stop before I do either of the other two scenarios.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Bill Richter - 10-22-2012 02:15 PM
Gene, I am with Kauffman on the broken leg coming on the road near Soper's Hill. I think JWB threw out his back in the jump from the box in the theater. Since I went with these suppositions, he can mount his flighty horse (it was quite a rodeo, as they say out thisaway), enter the street-level English basement at the Townhouse. As far as I know, Mostly black house servants lived in the basement, possibly one or more of the white girls, depending on the weather. The top floor was kind of stuffy, i my understanding.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Laurie Verge - 10-22-2012 02:48 PM
One of the only Surratt members that I know of to have gained entrance to the Surratt boardinghouse during the last century was Harold Wang, now of California. He got permission from then-owner, Dr. Lee -- who, I am sure, thought Harold was Chinese. Harold is a Scandinavian Wang, however.
That said, Mr. Wang wrote an article for the Surratt Courier in 1982 detailing his visit along with research that he had done. The ground floor of the boardinghouse was what is termed a daylight or English basement. There was a sitting room in the front, a dining room in the middle, and a kitchen in the rear. One could enter a hallway from an outside door under the stairs. The hallway had a door into the dining room and a flight of stairs to the right. No mention of servants' quarters, but one would assume that they were behind the kitchen? Bill, I don't remember there being any white servants? What is your source for that?
Mention was made of the bullet mold found in Mary's desk. There is a reference made in a diary by Philip Whitlock of being at Surratt Tavern when John, Jr. and others were having shooting contests. We also have a family story from then-neighbors to the rear of the boardinghouse of target practice going on in the alley that separated their house from the rear of 604 H Street. I wouldn't keep my son's bullet mold, etc. in my desk, but Mary might have.
Kate - I'm like you. I do not remember Lloyd testifying about Herold dashing over to the stable at Surrattsville. Art Loux - help! I swear that's the first time I have ever heard of this.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Art Loux - 10-22-2012 03:41 PM
I have been interested in the hat and guns issues for years and therefore was happy to see this thread.
I believe JWB visited Mrs. Surratt about 10:30 a.m. and learned she was going to the tavern. Previously that morning he had sent Herold to tell Atzerodt “I should go down to Surrattsville. He (Herold) said he Booth, had something there and wanted me to see after them. They were in Mrs. Surratt’s old house kept by Lloyd and I agreed to go.” (Atzerodt confession in Lincoln Assassination The Evidence hereafter LASE, pp. 63-64.) When Booth learned Mrs. Surratt was going to Surrattsville there was no need for Atzerodt to go. Booth returned to Mrs. Surratt’s before she and Weichmann left. Then I suspect Booth visited again after the meeting at the Herndon House.
I can’t add much to the hat discussion. I strongly doubt there were saddle bags. Pumphrey and Cobb gave detailed descriptions of the horse and rider and neither mentioned saddle bags. Booth was not much of a planner and so I doubt he carried an extra hat. His nonchalant hand -off of the horse at Ford’s indicates the lack of planning. His life depended on the horse being there later, yet he walked away as Spangler was protesting he had work to do. I strongly doubt Booth stopped at Mrs. Surratt’s after the deed; he needed to get across that bridge as soon as possible. So I have no solution to the hat mystery. Here are some additional odd notes about JWB’s hat:
Booth was hatless when he jumped. Hatless according to Taft. Devenay and Wray in LASE.
Booth had no hat on when he crossed the stage. (Bennett in LASE 131.)
He came out the door with no hat on. (Anderson in LASE 21.)
Hat and spur identified by Pumphrey in LASE.
Booth had his CAP pulled low. (Rollins in M619.)
Bainbridge quoted in This One Mad Act p. 275. Wore a soft, black hat.
I have a few comments about the revolvers which I will post separately.
(10-22-2012 02:48 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote: One of the only Surratt members that I know of to have gained entrance to the Surratt boardinghouse during the last century was Harold Wang, now of California. He got permission from then-owner, Dr. Lee -- who, I am sure, thought Harold was Chinese. Harold is a Scandinavian Wang, however.
That said, Mr. Wang wrote an article for the Surratt Courier in 1982 detailing his visit along with research that he had done. The ground floor of the boardinghouse was what is termed a daylight or English basement. There was a sitting room in the front, a dining room in the middle, and a kitchen in the rear. One could enter a hallway from an outside door under the stairs. The hallway had a door into the dining room and a flight of stairs to the right. No mention of servants' quarters, but one would assume that they were behind the kitchen? Bill, I don't remember there being any white servants? What is your source for that?
Mention was made of the bullet mold found in Mary's desk. There is a reference made in a diary by Philip Whitlock of being at Surratt Tavern when John, Jr. and others were having shooting contests. We also have a family story from then-neighbors to the rear of the boardinghouse of target practice going on in the alley that separated their house from the rear of 604 H Street. I wouldn't keep my son's bullet mold, etc. in my desk, but Mary might have.
Kate - I'm like you. I do not remember Lloyd testifying about Herold dashing over to the stable at Surrattsville. Art Loux - help! I swear that's the first time I have ever heard of this.
Laurie, Bert Sheldon was driving by the Surratt Boardinghouse years ago and saw all the doors open. He walked in and found it was being renovated. He asked if he could take the old doorknobs if he replaced them with new ones. His offer was accepted. He went to a hardware store, bought new knobs, took them to the builder and took home four of the originals. I have a tape of his hilarious description of this.
For Herold going to the stable at the Surratt Tavern see Lloyd in Poore I:120.
Lloyd: I am not positive now whether Herold was present at the time he (Booth) said that (we have assassinated the President), or whether he was across the street towards the stable. . . . Herold, as soon as he rode back to where we were, got right between me and this other man (Booth), and rode off.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - L Verge - 10-22-2012 05:49 PM
Art, this seems to indicate to me that Herold stayed on his horse at the stable. Bill Richter suggested to me that maybe, since Herold was now riding the skittish horse, that he was just letting her work off energy since she did not like to stand still. Makes sense to me.
Now that I see it in print, I do remember reading this; but it evidently did not stick in my brain. At the time I was perusing Lloyd's testimony, Mr. Hall, the restoration architect, and the county historian were working very hard to make sure that the details regarding the room over the being-constructed kitchen wing were accurate. That was about 1981-82.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - JMadonna - 10-22-2012 06:09 PM
If you read Wiechmann & Smoot it is obvious that Mary knew that the 'action' was going down that night. What her role was in conspiracy was always a matter of debate. I gave her the benefit of the doubt that she probably believed it was a kidnapping.
If you believe that she told Lloyd to 'get the carbines ready' and combine it with Bill's theory, it now seems logical to believe that Booth was using her as his gun-runner. It was her job to get the guns placed along the way for the boys to pick them up as they went. The boarding house was the first stop and the tavern was the second.
It's more than plausible it's a logical extension of what we know happened.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - L Verge - 10-22-2012 06:25 PM
Mary's actual quote, according to Lloyd, was "have those shooting irons ready..." Could that term apply to pistols as well as carbines? Were Weichmann, Lloyd, and Emma Offutt lying about the size of the package that she delivered? Lloyd only talked about bringing the one carbine and the field glasses out of the tavern.
If those pistols weren't on Booth's person, then I'm betting on them being stashed at Mudd's on April 12 or 13.