Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern?

Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Printable Version

+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Abraham Lincoln before his Presidency (/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? (/thread-3698.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Rob Wick - 04-18-2018 04:17 PM

I heard from my friend, Curtis, today. He sent the link that was previously mentioned about the Argus Hotel. He did check the land records and this is what he found out. "I found an article from the June 12, 1931 issue of the Illinois State Register that states Lincoln lived in a small house on the east side of Fourth Street, just north of the alley north of Monroe. I checked the land records for this location and found that Seth Tinsley purchased the south 54 3/4 feet of the lot on July 13, 1842 for $800 and sold it on March 27, 1844. So Tinsley would have been the owner of the house at the time that Abraham Lincoln was living there." Unfortunately, there isn't much else to go on.

I still think it was a Tinsley heir who was the original source and that it is likely Barton was the first one to mention it. However, as soon as I'm able to send my researcher back to the LOC, I will have her look for the letter that Burlingame mentions from the Beveridge papers.

Best
Rob

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Steve - 04-19-2018 01:54 PM

(04-18-2018 04:17 PM)Rob Wick Wrote: I heard from my friend, Curtis, today. He sent the link that was previously mentioned about the Argus Hotel. He did check the land records and this is what he found out. "I found an article from the June 12, 1931 issue of the Illinois State Register that states Lincoln lived in a small house on the east side of Fourth Street, just north of the alley north of Monroe. I checked the land records for this location and found that Seth Tinsley purchased the south 54 3/4 feet of the lot on July 13, 1842 for $800 and sold it on March 27, 1844. So Tinsley would have been the owner of the house at the time that Abraham Lincoln was living there." Unfortunately, there isn't much else to go on.

I still think it was a Tinsley heir who was the original source and that it is likely Barton was the first one to mention it. However, as soon as I'm able to send my researcher back to the LOC, I will have her look for the letter that Burlingame mentions from the Beveridge papers.

Best
Rob

It's interesting that Tinsley sold the Fourth street property on March 27, 1844 before the deed to Lincoln's new home was given to him on May 3, 1844. The Lincolns must have moved into their new house sometime after Lincoln gave Charles Dresser the $750 deposit on the home on February 5, 1844. Note that Seth Tinsley is the witness of the February 5th transaction on the sale contract:

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=lincoln;rgn=div1;view=text;idno=lincoln1;node=lincoln1%3A345

It's possible whoever bought the house on Fourth street in March 1844 knew the Lincolns were the prior inhabitants and their descendants could have been Barton's informants if it wasn't the Tinsleys.

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Anita - 04-19-2018 03:13 PM

Since I posted my question asking for the original source documentation of the Lincoln rental after the move from the Globe Tavern, I am grateful to all of you searching for this elusive piece of Lincoln history. I continue searching as well.

Thoughts. I wonder if Robert Lincoln ever mentioned this.
I'm surprised Herndon didn't mention it as it was at the time he became Lincoln's partner.
Also during the time of the rental Lincon wrote Speed inviting him to come visit.
No mention in Katherine Helm's book.

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Rob Wick - 04-19-2018 05:06 PM

Quote:It's possible whoever bought the house on Fourth street in March 1844 knew the Lincolns were the prior inhabitants and their descendants could have been Barton's informants if it wasn't the Tinsleys.

That's very true. It's equally possible that anyone who knew the Lincolns at that time would have known where they had lived and their descendants could have been the informant[s]. Without any new discoveries, I imagine this is one of those things that will remain unsolved.

Quote:I wonder if Robert Lincoln ever mentioned this.

I doubt it. To me it's unlikely he ever thought that much about it since he only would have been a year old at the time and had no memories of it.

Quote:'m surprised Herndon didn't mention it as it was at the time he became Lincoln's partner.

Given the short amount of time the Lincolns lived there, it was probably off his radar as well.

Best
Rob

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Rob Wick - 04-21-2018 10:54 AM

Roger,

One of the few Lincoln books I don't own is Wayne Temple's By Square & Compass. Does it mention anything on the Fourth St. home (assuming that you have it)?

Best
Rob

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - RJNorton - 04-21-2018 12:34 PM

Rob, I do have the book, and I had already checked it. Like so many other authors, he skips from the Globe Tavern to the home on Eighth Street. No mention of the late 1843 to Spring 1844 dwelling.

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - STS Lincolnite - 04-23-2018 12:14 PM

I was able to obtain a copy of a relevant Vaughn’s “Handful of Sorts” article from the Illinois State Journal (12 November 1927, p. 6, col. 2) courtesy of Bryon C. Andreasen, author of Looking for Lincoln in Illinois: Lincoln’s Springfield. I had the opportunity to meet Bryon in February and he was very nice so I decided to contact him to see if he had any additional insights into this topic since he had included the cottage in his book. He was kind enough to send me a copy of the article. He wasn’t aware of the Thompson/Beveridge letter so I plan to send him a copy to reciprocate once we can scare up a copy.

In the brief article, it states that Helmle lived on 5th street and played in the neighborhood where the Lincoln cottage stood while growing up (it was apparently still there when he was young as he remembered being there). Helmle was born in 1853 so would have been about 12 years old at the time of Lincoln’s death. With a former resident like Lincoln ascending to the presidency and then being assassinated, certainly all the stories of Lincoln’s time in Springfield would have been a big topic for discussion at the time Helmle was an impressionable youth. I have no doubt that around the time of Lincoln’s death he would have heard lots of stories about Lincoln and one about Lincoln having lived in the neighborhood where he lived and played would likely have stuck with him. In essence, he could have heard it from most anyone. Heck, he was born in the same year as Tad. Who knows, Helmle, having been schooled in Springfield, could have been an acquaintance or schoolmate of Tad and heard the story from Lincoln himself before leaving for Washington (of course I suspect he would have said that quite clearly if that had been the case).

I have attached an image of the article here. I will send to Roger as well to re-post in case it isn’t legible in the posted image.

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - RJNorton - 04-23-2018 12:50 PM

Thank you, Scott! Much appreciated!

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Steve - 04-23-2018 10:36 PM

George Helmle's childhood memories of the Fourth street home, has it having three rooms. But don't forget that the ad in the 15 May 1895 Illinois State Journal said the home had four rooms:

[attachment=2853]
(page 7, 1st column)

Now an extra room could've been added in the three decades between Helmle's childhood and the ad. But we also have to take into account the reliability/malleability of memories over decades, especially childhood memories.

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Anita - 04-24-2018 05:55 PM

Great sleuthing Steve!

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - kerry - 05-03-2018 07:33 PM

Didn't one of Mary's cousins mention that she lived with Mary while they were waiting for their new house? Is it possible they stayed with relatives? I can't find my source for that right now.

Off-topic, but it's so weird to me that Barton lived in Foxboro. I grew up there. Didn't he build his own wigwam to live in?

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - RJNorton - 05-04-2018 03:45 AM

(05-03-2018 07:33 PM)kerry Wrote: Off-topic, but it's so weird to me that Barton lived in Foxboro. I grew up there. Didn't he build his own wigwam to live in?

Yes, there is an article about it here:

http://milhomme.blogspot.com/2013/10/rev-william-e-bartons-wigwam-sunset.html

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - kerry - 05-04-2018 05:45 PM

(05-04-2018 03:45 AM)RJNorton Wrote:
(05-03-2018 07:33 PM)kerry Wrote: Off-topic, but it's so weird to me that Barton lived in Foxboro. I grew up there. Didn't he build his own wigwam to live in?

Yes, there is an article about it here:

http://milhomme.blogspot.com/2013/10/rev-william-e-bartons-wigwam-sunset.html

Thanks!

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - RJNorton - 05-05-2018 11:26 AM

Many thanks to Rob W. for sending this article on Barton's Wigwam. Rob writes, "This is one of the only pictures I've come across that shows the inside of the Wigwam."

CLICK HERE.

RE: Where did the Lincolns live after the Globe Tavern? - Rob Wick - 05-12-2018 02:29 PM

Just wanted to let everyone know that I've asked my Washington researcher to return to the Beveridge papers in the LOC. I've asked her to get the complete folder relating to Jacob C. Thompson. It generally takes her about a week or so (depending on how busy she is with other commissions), so as soon as she delivers them to me, I'll post what I find out.

Best
Rob