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+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: The Booth Deringer pistol (/thread-3217.html)
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - J. Beckert - 12-27-2016 06:44 PM
I don't believe Booth went to the theater, with the plan he had in mind, armed with only a one-shot pistol. Firearms and "ammunition" (powder, caps) of the day were far removed from what we have today and much more susceptible to failure. Booth barely made it out of the box, with Rathbone clutching his coat as he tried to jump, which may have even accounted for his awkward landing. Imagine if he'd walked in and heard a "click" when he fired?
I don't buy the pistol was "too big" to conceal. I carry a large frame revolver every day, (bigger than Booth's) and usually conceal it with only a vest. He could have very easily had both pistols on his person, especially wearing a long coat. In his thigh high boot, a gun belt, whatever. I'm sure he'd planned to be armed for whatever resistance he might meet on his flight and a one shot pistol and a knife just don't make sense to me.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Rick Smith - 12-28-2016 08:10 AM
You make some very good observations, Joe. I do think he got the two Colt's pistols and the gun belt later {who knows for sure?} but there is no reason that he would not have had a backup on his person that night. As to concealment; no problem with the loose fitting men's clothing of the period. With the exception of the vest, which was made to fit snug around the waist, the rest of Booth's outfit would have been cut for comfort and ease of movement. This was the style in the mid to late 19th century. The vest, or waistcoat, could be adjusted with the back belt, buttoned at top and bottom, and be used as a secure place to carry all sorts of items; papers, wallets, maps, tobacco pouches, and, yes, even hand guns. So, I agree with you that it would be very wise for Booth to have carried more than the single shot derringer. As you said, "Click." Not good. Known as the "Deadman's Click" isn't it?
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - J. Beckert - 12-28-2016 08:27 AM
Yes, it is. And it's never good....
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Thomas Kearney - 12-28-2016 02:37 PM
(12-27-2016 05:57 PM)L Verge Wrote: Joe Beckert, a retired State Trooper, has always contended that Booth could have concealed a second weapon in his knee-high boots. Makes sense to me.
Maybe it was still in his boot when he leaped and assisted in breaking the bone.....????? No, I never give up!
Laurie, that is unlikely. As for Meerschaum pipes, this was all I could find.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x426x8b
A later episode where Buddy crashes with Rob mentions JWB's visit to the Petersen House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQz0kLZtfQ 4:11 mark.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - STS Lincolnite - 12-28-2016 03:30 PM
(12-27-2016 02:48 PM)Wesley Harris Wrote: I get that book finished answering all your weapon questions "some day."
Wes, I am anxiously waiting for that "some day" when your book is finished!!
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - L Verge - 12-28-2016 03:57 PM
(12-28-2016 02:37 PM)Thomas Kearney Wrote:(12-27-2016 05:57 PM)L Verge Wrote: Joe Beckert, a retired State Trooper, has always contended that Booth could have concealed a second weapon in his knee-high boots. Makes sense to me.
Maybe it was still in his boot when he leaped and assisted in breaking the bone.....????? No, I never give up!
Laurie, that is unlikely. As for Meerschaum pipes, this was all I could find.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x426x8b
A later episode where Buddy crashes with Rob mentions JWB's visit to the Petersen House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQz0kLZtfQ 4:11 mark.
Thomas - I was actually being facetious when I suggested that the revolver was in Booth's boot and assisted in breaking his leg. However, this time, I'm turning the tables on you to prove that it is unlikely. Have at it with documentation.
As for the pipe: Spell it correctly and you might find some interesting history on the Meerschaum. Start here, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerschaum_pipe
One thing that I have always found interesting is, not only its creation from basically sea foam, but also its ability to change color the more it is smoked.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - RJNorton - 12-29-2016 06:49 AM
(12-28-2016 08:10 AM)Rick Smith Wrote: You make some very good observations, Joe. I do think he got the two Colt's pistols and the gun belt later {who knows for sure?} but there is no reason that he would not have had a backup on his person that night. As to concealment; no problem with the loose fitting men's clothing of the period.
This makes sense to me, Rick.
Also, after shooting the President, I would think Booth would not have wanted to ride through the streets of Washington and cross the Navy Yard Bridge unarmed. (We also once discussed the possibility Booth picked up weapons at Mary Surratt's boardinghouse - opinion was divided.)
How could he know beforehand that he would be able to talk Silas Cobb into allowing him to cross the bridge?
Does anyone have an opinion on this question - what would have happened had Cobb steadfastly denied Booth the right to cross the bridge? Would Booth have taken out a pistol and shot Cobb on the spot?
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - STS Lincolnite - 12-29-2016 11:12 AM
(12-29-2016 06:49 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Does anyone have an opinion on this question - what would have happened had Cobb steadfastly denied Booth the right to cross the bridge? Would Booth have taken out a pistol and shot Cobb on the spot?
Interesting question Roger.
I guess I would think Booth might point the gun at Cobb and somehow try to quickly subdue him or even beat him into submission/silence. But I don't think that his first choice would be to just outright shoot him. Firstly, because the noise of a shot on the bridge may attract unwanted attention (even with the revelry in the city). Also, although Booth was undoubtedly a murderer, in his own mind at least, he did have a sense of honor. He felt Lincoln was a tyrant and that he was therefore justified in shooting him. Although I do believe Booth would do whatever he felt he needed to be done to make his escape (up to and including shooting Cobb if necessary), I think he would exhaust the other options before he would just shoot someone who was essentially an innocent.
Of course, all that being said, maybe I'm giving Booth too much credit and the adrenaline and the emotions of the moment would cause him to just act/react - shoot first and think about it later.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Thomas Kearney - 12-29-2016 11:13 AM
(12-28-2016 03:57 PM)L Verge Wrote:(12-28-2016 02:37 PM)Thomas Kearney Wrote:(12-27-2016 05:57 PM)L Verge Wrote: Joe Beckert, a retired State Trooper, has always contended that Booth could have concealed a second weapon in his knee-high boots. Makes sense to me.
Maybe it was still in his boot when he leaped and assisted in breaking the bone.....????? No, I never give up!
Laurie, that is unlikely. As for Meerschaum pipes, this was all I could find.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x426x8b
A later episode where Buddy crashes with Rob mentions JWB's visit to the Petersen House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQz0kLZtfQ 4:11 mark.
Thomas - I was actually being facetious when I suggested that the revolver was in Booth's boot and assisted in breaking his leg. However, this time, I'm turning the tables on you to prove that it is unlikely. Have at it with documentation.
As for the pipe: Spell it correctly and you might find some interesting history on the Meerschaum. Start here, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerschaum_pipe
One thing that I have always found interesting is, not only its creation from basically sea foam, but also its ability to change color the more it is smoked.
Now that you mentioned it I could see it as a possibility. Sorry I doubted you. But one burning question, if Booth didn't get his boot taken off until his examination at Mudd's, how come the revolver was found on his body at Garretts? Also was a Meerschaum the type of pipe JWB smoked while visiting actor Charles Warwick in the back bedroom at the Petersen House?
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - L Verge - 12-29-2016 11:30 AM
Thomas, I don't quite understand your question as to why the boot came off at Mudd's (supposedly revealing the weapon?) and yet was still on Booth at the time of his death. I can only assume that, if the revolver was in his boot at Mudd's - which I doubt - Booth carried it with him in an easier to obtain spot on his body when he and Herold rode off into the sunset???
P.S. I personally believe that Mudd supplied the pistols to Booth upon his arrival. I think they were part of what Mudd had received earlier for hiding (not just provisions) or that they were brought to Mudd by Herold on April 12 or 13.
Kathy Canavan might have the answer as to which type of pipe JWB is said to have been smoking at Petersen's.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - wpbinzel - 01-03-2017 08:20 PM
Assuming that the "Booth Deringer pistol" was the weapon used to kill Lincoln, I have another question to which we will probably never know the answer for certain: Who loaded Booth's gun?
It seems unlikely that Booth did it himself as no loading supplies were found in his room at the National Hotel (at least they are not on any inventory of things found in his room that I have seen). It would seem probable that Booth would want the gun to be loaded by a professional and with fresh gunpowder, and, at some point on April 14th, visited Benjamin Barker's Pistol Gallery on "the NE Corner of 11th and Pennsylvania Avenue." When questioned, Barker initially "denied all knowledge of ever having known Mr. Booth," but it appears that Booth was a regular there since December 1864. Another witness had Booth at Barker's Gallery on April 10th and 11th. (See: Edwards & Steers, The Lincoln Assassination The Evidence, p. 479.) In a 2013 post on this website, Mr. Loux wrote: "Booth honed his shooting skills at Floyd & Edward Pistol Gallery" in Boston on April 6, 1865 as well. (See: http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-678.html .)
Consequently, it would seem probable that Benjamin Barker (or someone else at his Gallery) loaded the gun that killed Lincoln.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Gene C - 01-04-2017 07:02 AM
Interesting comment Bill. Some valid points.
For the sake of the discussion (because you are right, we will probably never know) I will suggest Booth was familiar enough with this type of weapon and would not trust the loading of the derringer to some one else.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - RJNorton - 01-04-2017 07:16 AM
(01-04-2017 07:02 AM)Gene C Wrote: Interesting comment Bill. Some valid points.
I second, Gene. Fascinating post, Bill. I had always just assumed Booth loaded the pistol in his room at the National. Now I wonder...
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - L Verge - 01-04-2017 12:35 PM
Just to throw a little extra in the game - a bullet mold (I believe for a .41 caliber pisto) was found in Mrs. Surratt's desk at the boardinghouse I'm digging in the recesses of my tired brain right now, so someone better double-check me.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Dennis Urban - 01-04-2017 05:11 PM
(01-04-2017 12:35 PM)L Verge Wrote: Just to throw a little extra in the game - a bullet mold (I believe for a .41 caliber pisto) was found in Mrs. Surratt's desk at the boardinghouse I'm digging in the recesses of my tired brain right now, so someone better double-check me.A bullet mold was definitely found. I do not recall where the caliber was stated. Interestingly, the only pistol I ever read carried by John Surratt was a Sharps Pepperbox .22 cal. No telling just whose bullet mild that was.