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+--- Thread: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes (/thread-321.html)
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - ReignetteC - 12-03-2012 10:30 AM
Laurie,
I should think Mr. Lincoln's clothing measurements would be of interest . . . .
In October of 1863, Brooks Brothers sent a representative to the Executive Mansion to "take the measure of His Excellency the President for clothing." Unfortunately, we don't have any further record of that visit which, of course, would have included Mr. Lincoln's clothing measurements.
More than a century later, however, Brooks Brothers partnered with the National Park Service, the Department of the Interior, and Ford's Theatre Museum with regard to the preservation of Mr. Lincoln's overcoat. (The occasion was the renovation of Ford's Theatre Museum in 1990.)
Brooks Brothers donated funds to conserve the original overcoat, and it made (and donated) a replica. As it undertook the making of the replica, Brooks Brothers worked with a textile preservation company and took precise measurements of the original overcoat.
Some measurements from the original overcoat are as follows:
Neck: 14 1/2"
Sleeve: The sleeve measures 24" in length and 14" around the wrist.
Full Length of Back: 51 1/2"
I'll dig through my files and find more measurements. To be continued . . .
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - Jim Page - 12-03-2012 10:42 AM
(12-03-2012 10:30 AM)ReignetteC Wrote: Laurie,
I should think Mr. Lincoln's clothing measurements would be of interest . . . .
Hey, Reg--
They certainly are. I've seen that once-beautiful coat several times and was always struck by how narrow Mr. Lincoln's shoulders were.
And I'd love to check out the original Brooks Brothers store in NYC. One can only imagine the folks who have purchased clothing there!!!
--Jim
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - Mark MacKenzie - 12-03-2012 10:45 AM
The implication of Marfan's is not all that great, I think. If Lincoln had the syndrome, besides the physical abnormalities which include distorted chests, then he would have had a higher risk of aortic aneurism. Thereby, proving his nickname, "The Great Heart."
I thought I saw a documentary about testing Lincoln's blood from Laura Keene's dress fragments or perhaps the pillow and the tests proved inconclusive.
Reignette,
Did the style of overcoat have a particular name?
Hat's off to Brooks Brothers!
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - ReignetteC - 12-03-2012 10:51 AM
Jim,
Brooks Brothers' flagship store is at 346 Madison Avenue (corner of Madison and 44th). Built in 1915, it's loaded with lots of history (and very friendly sales associates). By the way, during the American Civil War, Brooks Brothers had two stores: Catherine and Cherry Streets (this store was sacked and looted during the NYC Draft Riots of 1863); the other, Broadway and Grand Streets.
Reg
(12-03-2012 10:42 AM)Jim Page Wrote:(12-03-2012 10:30 AM)ReignetteC Wrote: Laurie,
I should think Mr. Lincoln's clothing measurements would be of interest . . . .
Hey, Reg--
They certainly are. I've seen that once-beautiful coat several times and was always struck by how narrow Mr. Lincoln's shoulders were.
And I'd love to check out the original Brooks Brothers store in NYC. One can only imagine the folks who have purchased clothing there!!!
--Jim
(12-03-2012 10:45 AM)Mark MacKenzie Wrote: The implication of Marfan's is not all that great, I think. If Lincoln had the syndrome, besides the physical abnormalities which include distorted chests, then he would have had a higher risk of aortic aneurism. Thereby, proving his nickname, "The Great Heart."
I thought I saw a documentary about testing Lincoln's blood from Laura Keene's dress fragments or perhaps the pillow and the tests proved inconclusive.
Reignette,
Did the style of overcoat have a particular name?
Hat's off to Brooks Brothers!
Yes, a "great coat."
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - Laurie Verge - 12-03-2012 12:56 PM
I may be wrong, but I believe that someone recently told me that there is a small museum at the New York store?
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - RJNorton - 12-03-2012 04:41 PM
Besides the Marfan's theory, another doctor, John G. Sotos, argues that Lincoln suffered from a rare genetic cancer syndrome called MEN2B (multiple endocrine neoplasia, type 2B). Dr. Sotos says that Lincoln did not have Marfan's syndrome, but that some of his boys and probably Nancy Hanks Lincoln had MEN2B, and that the president likely had less than a year to live prior to the assassination. Included in Dr. Sotos' arguments are the fact that Lincoln had the classic body shape of those suffering from MEN2B. Dr. Sotos feels Lincoln was dying of cancer during the last months of his life. Thyroid cancer is particularly common among people who have MEN2B.
I have Dr. Sotos' book titled The Physical Lincoln. He makes many arguments and includes many photos to show the reader that Lincoln may have had MEN2B. Dr. Sotos disagrees with the doctors who feel Lincoln had Marfan's.
Everyone can draw their own conclusions. Personally, I don't think Lincoln had either Marfan's or MEN2B, but no one can know for certain. I know Ed Steers has argued that Lincoln did not have Marfan's.
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - Mark MacKenzie - 12-03-2012 06:15 PM
Thanks for that, Roger. I have always thought Lincoln's last photograph looks like a very sick man.
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - ReignetteC - 12-03-2012 06:36 PM
(12-03-2012 12:56 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote: I may be wrong, but I believe that someone recently told me that there is a small museum at the New York store?
The store is currently being renovated - floor by floor. When complete, there will be a small museum on the first floor.
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - L Verge - 12-03-2012 06:36 PM
This is probably a stupid question, but do any of you men out there match Mr. Lincoln in height and in measurements that Reignette has provided thus far? I'm just asking to see if Mr. Lincoln would have been fairly typical of today's 6'4" thin male. I do not believe Lincoln had any disease at the time of his death.
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - Mark MacKenzie - 12-03-2012 06:57 PM
I am nearly 6'4" and 185lbs. Ok, 190 lbs. I've been described as skinny but as I get older... well.
My sleeves are about 26" as I measured on my own Brooks Brothers jacket. I wear a 44 long. Neck size 16. My shirts say 16-36 but the sleeve measures 26 from seam to end of cuff.
I have big feet. A teacher called it a "good understanding."
I would really like to have a great coat like that.
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - L Verge - 12-03-2012 07:04 PM
It would seem that your arms are longer than Mr. L's. Maybe you should be checked for Marfan's. Just kidding.
BTW: My dad would have said about your big feet, "Just think how tall you would have been if so much hadn't been folded down for feet."
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - ReignetteC - 12-04-2012 10:18 AM
(12-03-2012 10:30 AM)ReignetteC Wrote: Laurie,
I should think Mr. Lincoln's clothing measurements would be of interest . . . .
In October of 1863, Brooks Brothers sent a representative to the Executive Mansion to "take the measure of His Excellency the President for clothing." Unfortunately, we don't have any further record of that visit which, of course, would have included Mr. Lincoln's clothing measurements.
More than a century later, however, Brooks Brothers partnered with the National Park Service, the Department of the Interior, and Ford's Theatre Museum with regard to the preservation of Mr. Lincoln's overcoat. (The occasion was the renovation of Ford's Theatre Museum in 1990.)
Brooks Brothers donated funds to conserve the original overcoat, and it made (and donated) a replica. As it undertook the making of the replica, Brooks Brothers worked with a textile preservation company and took precise measurements of the original overcoat.
Some measurements from the original overcoat are as follows:
Neck: 14 1/2"
Sleeve: The sleeve measures 24" in length and 14" around the wrist.
Full Length of Coat: 51 1/2"
I'll dig through my files and find more measurements. To be continued . . .
Update:
Trunk: 24"
Underarm to to 6" Above Waist: 17 1/4"
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - Jim Garrett - 12-04-2012 08:14 PM
If I remember, AL was a very slight eater. Usually just a hard boiled egg foe breakfast, some fruit (when available) and often he skipped meals. When looking at his last photograph, and comparing it to the first imges with a beard, yes He has aged significantly......but not more so than a man under the same stresses he went through. A four year war, and the loss of a child, put the years on him, but I don't know if he is much worse for wear than any 56 year old in 1865.
I believe "fighting" Joe Hooker had his uniforms made by Brooks Bros. Reignette, glad to have you in the group.
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - ReignetteC - 12-04-2012 09:56 PM
(12-04-2012 08:14 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: If I remember, AL was a very slight eater. Usually just a hard boiled egg foe breakfast, some fruit (when available) and often he skipped meals. When looking at his last photograph, and comparing it to the first imges with a beard, yes He has aged significantly......but not more so than a man under the same stresses he went through. A four year war, and the loss of a child, put the years on him, but I don't know if he is much worse for wear than any 56 year old in 1865.
I believe "fighting" Joe Hooker had his uniforms made by Brooks Bros. Reignette, glad to have you in the group.
Thanks. I am very glad to be here.
Yes, BB made Hooker's uniforms. Also, those of Philip Sheridan, General Grant, and NY's 7th Regiment. And let's not forget about Teddy Roosevelt. Years later Brooks Brothers made his Rough Rider uniform. (If I recall correctly, a young TR watched Lincoln's funeral cortege pass by his home on Broadway/Union Square.)
RE: Distribution of Some of the Death Clothes - wsanto - 12-04-2012 10:03 PM
(12-03-2012 04:41 PM)RJNorton Wrote: I have Dr. Sotos' book titled The Physical Lincoln. He makes many arguments and includes many photos to show the reader that Lincoln may have had MEN2B. Dr. Sotos disagrees with the doctors who feel Lincoln had Marfan's..Roger, I've briefly reviewed Dr. Soto's arguments for Lincoln's possible medical condition. I also watched "Lincoln's Secret Killer" (NatGeo Doc on Dr Sotos and his investigation). You can view it on Youtube. They were able to collect some DNA samples from a bloody swatch of Keene's dress and from a bloodied bandage. On the one hand, both samples were fairly degraded but, on the other, neither showed the mutation for MEN2B. Of course, Sotos is right to argue that the DNA collected may not be Lincoln's (fraudulent relics, Rathbone's blood, contamination with modern DNA, etc.) but the negative tests are a huge discouragement for his hypothesis.
I agree that it is unlikely that Lincoln had either Marfan Syndrome or MEN2B. The evidence against both is pretty good. The chance that Llincoln would have survived into his sixth decade with MEN2B is not zero, but it is as close as you can get. Apparentlly, most MEN2B patients, if untreated, die in their first or second decade. They all develop a very aggressive form of thyroid cancer early in life.
Dr. Sotos claim that he was dying from cancer (related to MEN2B) at the time of his assassination is again almost pure speculation. Lincoln was a bit emaciated and had aged a few decades while President but there doesn't seem to be any real evidence that he was dying of cancer or of anything else for that matter.
Like Bob Dylan says--"if your not busy bein' born, you're busy dyin'.