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+--- Thread: The hole In the door (/thread-2668.html)
RE: The hole In the door - L Verge - 09-17-2015 06:50 PM
The only place they would have needed a fire would be the pine thicket, and neither Booth nor Herold were stupid enough to build one in overgrowth - even with a fire pit (which they probably did not have materials for) or in a wide clearing. If one thinks that they might have gotten cold during those long nights in that thicket, one might want to give more consideration to the James Owens statement that the fugitives may well have been at Austin Adams's establishment in Newport for part of the time.
Horse blankets are actually quite warm, and there is the possibility that Jones or the Coxes provided extra blankets. Anyone here that has gone through boot camp and slept in a pup tent under an army blanket in April in an area with a climate similar to Southern Maryland's?
I just don't see Booth having a gimlet in his possession unless he needed one on April 14. I can see the Ford family claiming that the hole was already there, however, in order to escape further condemnation.
RE: The hole In the door - Jim Page - 09-17-2015 08:26 PM
(09-17-2015 06:50 PM)L Verge Wrote: . . . one might want to give more consideration to the James Owens statement that the fugitives may well have been at Austin Adams's establishment in Newport for part of the time.
Laurie, at the risk of sounding like Johnny One-Note, I again say that a stay in the Adams's place has always seemed more likely to me than five days and nights in a pine thicket.
The escapees may have done in Newport what they did at the Garrett farmhouse; when someone seemed to be coming their way, quickly dash out into the pine thicket till the danger was past.
--Jim
RE: The hole In the door - BettyO - 09-18-2015 04:28 AM
Quote:Anyone here that has gone through boot camp and slept in a pup tent under an army blanket in April in an area with a climate similar to Southern Maryland's?
I've done just that - at the Shiloh CW reenactment back in 1987. April 4-6 - and it snowed like crazy! There was 3-4 inches on the ground and we slept in tents in 25 degree weather - with tons of blankets on us. I was warm enough -
RE: The hole In the door - HerbS - 09-18-2015 06:41 AM
I did survival training up in the Adirondak Mts as a young man[years ago]! What a tremendous experience for me to learn how to save my life!So,BettyO,that was a fun experience to have for both you and me-probably many others also.
RE: The hole In the door - Rick Smith - 09-18-2015 07:27 AM
(09-17-2015 08:26 PM)Jim Page Wrote:(09-17-2015 06:50 PM)L Verge Wrote: . . . one might want to give more consideration to the James Owens statement that the fugitives may well have been at Austin Adams's establishment in Newport for part of the time.
Laurie, at the risk of sounding like Johnny One-Note, I again say that a stay in the Adams's place has always seemed more likely to me than five days and nights in a pine thicket.
The escapees may have done in Newport what they did at the Garrett farmhouse; when someone seemed to be coming their way, quickly dash out into the pine thicket till the danger was past.
--Jim
Jim, You are certainly on the right track. James Owens stated that two strangers {he described them and their horses and it is an exact description of Booth & Herold and their horses} rode into the village of Newport, ". . . it was on a Thursday night, I was at home {meaning Adams' place}; it was pretty late, nearly supper time, when two men came there on horseback accompanied by a white boy {I would bet Sam Cox, Jr.}, they got off their horses, and the boy took them and went away."
The Thursday Owens referred to would have been April 20th. This is an illustration of Thomas Jones doing his job. The fugitives were moved from the "pine thicket" when the federals got too close.
RE: The hole In the door - HerbS - 09-18-2015 08:12 AM
Do not ever attempt to hide in a"pine thicket"as they might contain peet bogs or quick sand!Booth or Herold should have known better!
RE: The hole In the door - Rick Smith - 09-18-2015 08:54 AM
(09-18-2015 08:12 AM)HerbS Wrote: Do not ever attempt to hide in a"pine thicket"as they might contain peet bogs or quick sand!Booth or Herold should have known better!
That sure can apply to some, Herb, but in this case, there were no bogs or quicksand in the pine thicket where Jones hid Booth and Herold.
RE: The hole In the door - Craig Hipkins - 09-18-2015 06:46 PM
I do know that there are ways to create a semi smokeless fire. Depending on the wood that is used and if it is seasoned or not. They could have dug a fire pit and using the pine thicket for cover the smoke would have been almost undetectable. I doubt seriously that Booth would have known how to do this but Herold? He was obviously well acquainted with the elements. It's possible that he had the knowledge.
I do agree with Laurie and Jim that it is quite possible that they took refuge in Newport.
RE: The hole In the door - Gene C - 09-18-2015 09:18 PM
I'm in unfamiliar territory here. How far would Newport put them from where Jones had his boat stored?
RE: The hole In the door - HerbS - 09-19-2015 06:30 AM
Thanks for your information Rick!
RE: The hole In the door - Rick Smith - 09-19-2015 07:00 AM
(09-18-2015 09:18 PM)Gene C Wrote: I'm in unfamiliar territory here. How far would Newport put them from where Jones had his boat stored?
Herb, you are most welcome.
Gene, These are close estimates as regards distance: From the Pine Thicket to Newport is about 7 miles going on a route that passes through Bryantown. From Newport to Thomas Jones' place by the shortest route is about the same distance. This distance could easily be travelled by horseback in an hour or even a bit less. From the Pine Thicket to Jones' place is a little less than 5 miles.
I believe that the federals were bringing a lot of pressure to bear and Jones felt it best to move Booth & Herold. Jones had surely done this kind of thing before in his capacity as a signal officer and it was good practice to keep people moving while waiting for an opportunity to cross the river. My feeling is that he tasked Sam Cox, Jr. with leading the fugitives to Newport and the tavern there operated by Austin Adams, whose hired man, James Owens, saw them ride into the village on Thursday evening, April 20. They were put in Adams' charge until Friday evening, when the "white boy" appeared again to lead Booth & Herold towards Pope's Creek. I wrote an article on the event for the Surratt Courier in 2008, but forget what month and issue it appeared in. Laurie would be able to say, as she has her finger on the pulse of all things over that way.
RE: The hole In the door - Thomas Kearney - 09-20-2015 08:47 AM
(09-17-2015 04:28 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(09-17-2015 04:09 PM)brtmchl Wrote: I lean to the side that the hole was drilled by Booth. Probably using Spangler's tool. The fact that there was evidence of a gimlet found in Booth's possession seals the deal for me. Why would an Actor, living room to room, town to town, need to carry such a tool?
Mike, Conger found wood shavings in Booth's pocket at Garrett's. I won't guess where the wood shavings came from as I don't know.
My best guess would be that the wood shavings are from the pencil Booth used to write in his diary.
RE: The hole In the door - L Verge - 09-20-2015 11:30 AM
Actually, Thomas, that is a very good guess! Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember the old-timers (my grandmother, my uncle, and the guys who used to hang around our country store) using pen knives to sharpen the pencils they always carried in their pockets. Not many shavings resulted from one cutting, but over a period of days, there would have been quite a few gathered. The only question that comes to my mind is why keep them in your pocket when you are spending all your time outdoors?
RE: The hole In the door - HerbS - 09-21-2015 07:43 AM
Pencil shavings are very different from wood shavings in a door! Nice guess Tom,but no-cigar!
RE: The hole In the door - Gene C - 09-21-2015 08:50 AM
I doubt Booth would use a knife to sharpen his pencil when he could easliy afford one of these
http://www.happymall.com/washington-dc/DC-AS07230.htm