(10-10-2014 06:45 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  So who is actually reporting this to the author of the article? Grant or his unidentified friend? Based on the structure of the article, it sounds to me like the author is relaying the words of the "friend". Not that that necessarily negatively impacts the veracity of the account.

(10-11-2014 04:30 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  

(10-10-2014 06:45 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  So who is actually reporting this to the author of the article? Grant or his unidentified friend? Based on the structure of the article, it sounds to me like the author is relaying the words of the "friend". Not that that necessarily negatively impacts the veracity of the account.

Grant once said to an aide, "Ah, you know my weaknesses, my children and my horses." Is it then safe to say that his family was one of the most important things in his life? Can you than make the conclusion that Grant’s relationship with his wife was a devoted and happy one and that he loved his children?

Julia Grant began her memoirs by dictating to her son Frederick and later to a secretary The memoirs were then edited by John Y Simon. Does that make the memoirs less reliable?

(10-08-2014 09:07 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  According to Grant, in his memoirs (p. 750 in my copy) - "I replied to the President's verbal invitation to the effect, that if we were in the city we would take great pleasure in accompanying them; but that I was very anxious to get away and visit my children, and if I could get through my work during the day I should do so. I did get through the work and started by the evening train on the 14th, sending Mr. Lincoln word, of course, that I would not be at the theatre."

He makes no mention whatsoever about his wife prodding him to leave. Grant implies that it was his wish to see his children that prompted him to want to leave on the 14th and that that was the case from the time Lincoln had invited him to the theatre. If his work was not completed and he had to stay in Washington, he would go to the theatre. If his work was completed he would leave by the first available train to get home and visit his children.

This doesn't answer the question as to why he took the local train versus a later express but I could imagine there could be any great number of reasons. Even though the local train ride was longer, wouldn't it have still arrived home at an earlier time? A mother or father anxious to see their children would I am sure endure a longer train ride if it meant an hour or two extra with their children.

Now to Mrs. Grant. I re-read the applicable pages in Mrs. Grant's memoir. Though she does not say why, she states that as soon as the General awoke on the morning of the 14th she "...asked him earnestly if we would not leave for Burlington today." She goes on to give an account of a messenger who arrived from Mrs. Lincoln - she states that looking back she firmly believed he was one of the conspirators and not from Mrs. Lincoln at all. Following this incident she says she again asked (via note) the General to leave that evening and also asked 3 of the staff officers to "urge the General to go home that night." She recounts seeing Booth and brunch at a nearby table with three other men (one of whom she is sure was the "messenger" from earlier in the morning) watching her and her party. She states that she told a Mrs. Rawlins with whom she was dining, "I believe that they are part of Mosby's guerillas and they have been listening to every word we have said. Do you know, I believe there will be an outbreak tonight or soon. I just feel it, and am glad I am going away tonight." Also talks of Booth riding up next to their carriage and looking in (this incident seems to be consistent with one of John Mathews' statements) in what was a very aggressive and menacing way.

Taken in totality, it seems to me that the wishes of Julia Grant were the paramount reason for the trip home on the evening of the 14th. Why she was so adamant - I'm not really sure. Though she may not have particularly cared for Mary Lincoln, I don't think Mrs. Lincoln was the main reason she was so adamant about leaving that night. It could have been a dream (though she never mentions one in her memoirs) but I have little doubt that she somehow felt that she and her husband were in some sort of danger. Maybe it was "intuition". Malcolm Gladwell in his book Blink describes the unconscious way some people are able to assimilate information and draw a conclusion (often correct) without even knowing how they do it - an explanation for what many call intuition. However she came to the conclusion, she was certainly right about the "outbreak tonight or soon."

(10-11-2014 08:32 AM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  For some reason, you seem to think that I am attacking the credibility of this article/source. That is not at all the case. As I previously stated, the account is corroborated by and matches up with Mrs. Grant's memoirs and that whether the person who is speaking to the reporter is Grant or his "friend" does not necessarily impact its veracity.

The point of my question was that when categorizing sources, I try to be precise about such things. I categorize as primary or secondary sources then subcategorize based on other criteria. It helps me organize, assign hierarchy and defend should it be necessary when writing or speaking.

Your identification of the "unidentified friend" in a later post is very helpful and appreciated.

(10-11-2014 09:17 AM)HerbS Wrote:  Loetar44-Outstanding job of research!-Herb

(10-11-2014 09:27 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Many of the posts seem to point mainly at Julia as the reason the Grants abruptly departed on the 14th after (apparently) initially indicating they would be staying several days at the Willard Hotel. But perhaps Ulysses himself was also looking for an excuse to (quoting Herb) "get out of Dodge." (and avoid spending another evening with Mary)

(10-11-2014 09:27 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  I'll mention Linda's research again (from Burlingame):

"The previous evening, Lincoln had been too sick with a headache to take a carriage ride with his wife, who wished to see the brilliant illuminations celebrating Lee’s surrender. Grant, at Lincoln’s request, had agreed to accompany her. As she and the general entered their carriage, the crowd that had gathered outside the White House shouted “Grant!” nine times. Taking offense, Mrs. Lincoln instructed the driver to let her out, but she changed her mind when the crowd also cheered for the president. This happened again and again as the carriage proceeded around town. The First Lady evidently thought it inappropriate that Grant should be cheered before her husband was."

My question is whether or not Grant, himself, might also have taken a dislike of Mary Lincoln. Could he have been offended by her initial request of the driver to let her out?

Many of the posts seem to point mainly at Julia as the reason the Grants abruptly departed on the 14th after (apparently) initially indicating they would be staying several days at the Willard Hotel. But perhaps Ulysses himself was also looking for an excuse to (quoting Herb) "get out of Dodge." (and avoid spending another evening with Mary)

(10-09-2014 09:51 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  

(10-09-2014 08:25 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  I don't think that either Grant or his wive would state that Mrs. Lincoln was the true reason for them hurrying home.

Do you mean that it is all speculation?

(10-11-2014 10:40 AM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:  Linda, What edition of Burlingame's book do you have? Mine does not have the same citations. The relevant ones in my copy are numbered in the 50s and do not as clearly cite the Fish diary as the source for the account of the carriage ride.

Thanks!

(10-11-2014 10:22 AM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  It's fascinating to learn that the Grants' daughter Emma Dent Casey was the source for Mrs. Grant's premonitory dream. Do you know the source that Ishbel Ross used in The General's Wife: The Life of Ulyssus S. Grant (Julia Grant) for Emma Dent Casey's statement?