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+--- Thread: Throwing more Mudd in the game (/thread-1182.html)
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-25-2013 06:34 PM
Going back to Booth having complained months ago about fatigue from riding a horse from Charles County back into D.C. (or at least to T.B.), wouldn't that also give fuel to my speculation that he knew he was going to have to have a layover at some point after the assassination and the Mudd home was the most likely spot - pretty isolated, home and outbuildings for security, someone he knew, someone a bit upscale to suit his gentlemanly tastes, someone who had cooperated so far. Send Davey out ahead of time to announce that something big was going to go down very soon and that the good doctor's help was going to be needed.
Again, let me stress that I am not condemning Dr. Mudd. I am just pointing out that he got caught again in Booth's way of manipulating people to meet his needs. Dr, Mudd was also a very disgruntled man as far as the outcome of the war - enough so that he talked about selling and leaving the area. Cooperate with Booth who was planning revenge of some sort.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - SSlater - 09-26-2013 11:43 PM
Reluctantly, I must reply to"A shot in the leg" Obviously, we can not comprehend the status of a slave in the 1860's. He (or she) was nothing. A Plantation Owner treated his horses with more respect than he did a slave. The horse was better fed, better housed, and was "loved". A horse cost more than a slave. A slave knew he had to work and obey and be punished - severely. Dr. Mudd chose this form of punishment to be appropriate. The slave may have been thankful, Mudd didn't kill him. I'll bet that Mudd then doctored the man back to health, even if it was to protect his investment.
While in prison, The Dr. even treated the guards who held him there.
Yes, Mudd's hands were dirty. No pun intended. He was a sympathizer - and proud of it.
I believe that Dr. Mudd was telling us that he did not know Booth when he opened the door and let him in. After he removed the disguise, if any, and listened to his story, if any, then he knew Booth.
Think about this. Booth sent items to the Tavern, "to be used that night", but then refused the "shootin' iron". That is a strong indication that circumstances had changed from the original plan.
As for the "Bumpy Oak", I worked in the "Pentagon" for years, and drove this road twice a day. In my day it was paved, two lanes wide, but there were no straight-aways, and it flooded often. What a perfect road to transport an abducted President along! It was also the shortest route to the Potomac.
Yes, I believe Harbin was on the "Secret Line". I believe he was THE BOSS of the line. He recommended Thomas Jones for his job.
P.S. I have been corresponding with a descendant of his - lives near Pittsburgh, PA.
Yes, I believe that Dr. Mudd was a member of the "Doctor Line". Yes, he delivered mail, news and whatever, throughout Southern MD. He had little contact with Spies moving up and down the "Secret Line.
My reference to the CRUTCH was in reply to the question "What else did he get at Mudd's ? It was intended to be sarcastic.
How can we say that Atzerodt was a liar and not to be believed, and in the next breath, say he is to be believed? I think they ALL lied when it suited their case and told the truth when it would divert the blame to someone else. Atzerodt was prone to brag -to show how important he was, when in fact he didn't know what he was talking about. As an example. he had a list of name for Slater, that reads like the "Litany to the Saints". (A Catholic Prayer that names Every Saint.) Atzerodt said many things, that much is true, but he was mostly wrong, and that is also true.
I hope I have addressed all questions concerning my posts. If not, please ask. I assume that you know what I am talking about. You guys are so thoroughly informed, cites are not required. 'sides, I might give the wrong cite.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - RJNorton - 09-27-2013 04:58 AM
(09-26-2013 11:43 PM)SSlater Wrote: How can we say that Atzerodt was a liar and not to be believed, and in the next breath, say he is to be believed? I think they ALL lied when it suited their case and told the truth when it would divert the blame to someone else. Atzerodt was prone to brag -to show how important he was, when in fact he didn't know what he was talking about.
Atzerodt has me puzzled here. Who was the New York crowd? (yes, I realize I have asked that before) It almost sounds like they were a group of Northerners working with the Condederate operatives to get Lincoln one way or another. Is this something Atzerodt would just make up? To me it sounds like there is some "meat" to this. Atzerodt stated:
Booth said he had met a party in N. York who would get the Prest. certain. They were going to mine the end of the pres. House, near the War Dept. They knew an entrance to accomplish it through. Spoke about getting friends of the Presdt. to get up an entertainment & they would mix it in, have a serenade & thus get at the Presdt. & party.
These were understood to be projects.
Booth said if he did not get him quick the N. York crowd would. Booth knew the New York party apparently by a sign. He saw Booth give some kind of sign to two parties on the Avenue who he said were from New York
A few days ago I happened upon a show on the Military Channel where they tried to simulate what kind of damage Harney's bomb could have caused to the White House. The conclusion, as I understood it, was that if the bomb were placed in the White House's lower level, and Lincoln was in the room above, then Lincoln most likely would have been killed. (I thought they said the bomb would probably be placed below the State Dining Room, but I am not sure I heard that correctly.) They said much of the force of the blast would have been directed upwards which would have collapsed the floor above, killing many or all who might have been in that room.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-27-2013 08:28 AM
Atzerodt's statements about what Booth had said about the New York crowd is intriguing to many of us -- and it was to Tidwell, Hall, and Gaddy. They focused primarily on the White House attack and were delighted when they found out that I knew William Seale, the White House historian/author and that he had visited Surratt House. I was put in charge of contacting Mr. Seale to inquire about the phrase "They knew an entrance to accomplish it through."
Mr. Seale was quick in his response - The underground sewer system that ran into the White House had pipes that were tall enough for men to walk through comfortably. If Harney had been able to get into that system, he stood a good chance of planting his bomb. I saw the same program that Roger refers to several years ago, and it was very effective in proving what Harney could have done. I believe that one line of thought also suggested that the bomb would be very effective if timed with a Cabinet meeting.
As to the New York crowd, I have had two thoughts on this: Could we be referring to the financial potentates of NYC, who certainly disliked Lincoln's policies? Or, should we consider western portions of the state where there was a heavy Copperhead movement?
I had the opportunity several years ago to read a hefty manuscript for an upcoming book which focuses on a particular businessman in the city who had gathered a gang of toughs to do in Mr. Lincoln. The manuscript made sense, but the citations were not specific enough for me. I do hope that it sees the light of day, however, so that others can study the propositions put forth by this author.
As for the Copperhead movement in western New York, there just seems to be more and more tidbits arising about the pockets of support there that need investigating as part of the overall Northwest Conspiracy (which I know very little about except for the "piracy" on the Great Lakes).
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Gene C - 09-27-2013 09:16 AM
I'm taking a lot of this NY crowd talk with a grain of salt. Booth liked to exaggerate, and he was having problems keeping his own little band of conspirators involved. So he exaggerates the number of people involved to keep his guys from being discouraged and to make them think they are part of a larger effort.
In my opinion, if you are going to seriously look at the financial NY crowd, you need to start with the backers of Salmon Chase. As Sec. of Treasury, he has a lot of connections and always felt he could be a better president than Lincoln. He had the political desire. (But I don't think he would have been involved in assassination plans)
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-27-2013 12:00 PM
Good point. What do we know about Salmon Chase and his political backers?