Louis Weichmann - Printable Version +- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium) +-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html) +--- Thread: Louis Weichmann (/thread-525.html) |
RE: Louis Weichmann - RJNorton - 09-21-2015 05:07 AM Does everybody agree that George Atzerodt was originally Booth's choice to go to Surrattsville on the 14th and do the exact same things Mary Surratt did (take the field glasses to Lloyd and tell him to have the guns ready)? This is what the late Art Loux writes in John Wilkes Booth: Day By Day. Art writes that originally JWB told Herold to tell Atzerodt to go to Surrattsville to do this "errand." However, when Booth stopped by Mary's boardinghouse on the morning of the 14th he learned that Mary was already planning her trip, and thus Booth then went to Atzerodt and told him there was now no need for him to make the trip. Maybe I have read this in other books; if so, I had forgotten, as I had thought Mary Surratt was Booth's only choice for this April 14th "errand." If Art is right she wasn't even his original choice. RE: Louis Weichmann - HerbS - 09-21-2015 06:26 AM Pamela-PTSD is a mystery disorder for each person who has it! I kinow,because I suffer from it myself! I do think you on a very hard to prove track with Weichmann,but a good one to investigate. RE: Louis Weichmann - Gene C - 09-21-2015 06:53 AM (09-21-2015 05:07 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Does everybody agree that George Atzerodt was originally Booth's choice to go to Surrattsville on the 14th and do the exact same things Mary Surratt did (take the field glasses to Lloyd and tell him to have the guns ready)? This is what the late Art Loux writes in John Wilkes Booth: Day By Day. Hadn't heard that before. How about this thought for all the "Weichmann Was A Part Of The Plot" fans (WWAPOTP - pronounced the way it sounds) Booth's real plan is for Weichmann to go to Surrattsville. Mary is invited to go along to provide a cover story. "Sometimes the real answer is right under your nose" - Pinocchio RE: Louis Weichmann - Susan Higginbotham - 09-21-2015 07:31 AM (09-20-2015 05:45 PM)Pamela Wrote: Laurie, you made an assumption as to what I meant by the word 'concoction' which was wrong. In his book, written more than two decades after the assassination, Weichmann admitted that he, over the years, pondered the details of the day of the trip to Surrattsville on the 14th "almost incessantly". That's OCD for you! I think he suffered from a combination of OCD and PTSD (post traumatic stress syndrome). The letter from Calvert which Mrs. Surratt told Louis came on the 14th, was dated the 12th, and he believed that Mary lied to him when she said the letter arrived on the 14th because it should have arrived no later than the 13th. Mary used this urgency of timing to explain to him the necessity and the purpose of the trip, and she had him say the same in a letter he wrote to Nothey at her behest at the tavern. Nowhere in the letter did she mention an appointment with him at the tavern, or to meet her at the tavern or anywhere else, and Gynne was given the letter just after it was written and testified that he gave it to Nothey that day. Regardless of when Mary got the letter (and a letter is not necessarily mailed on the same day it is dated--stuff does happen), she didn't know until Weichmann came home early from work with the news that Stanton had given employees the day off (see his letter on p. 164, which was dated and read to the clerks the morning of the 14th) that he would be available to drive her to the country. Weichmann went out to hire the buggy and returned to find Booth at the house. That strongly suggests one of two things: (1) Mary had already made plans to go to the tavern to attend to her personal business, with Weichmann as her driver, before Booth turned up and gave her the message and the items to deliver or (2) Booth had been by earlier that day and given Mary the message and the items, but Mary hadn't arranged for transportation to the tavern until Weichmann unexpectedly came home from work early. Given the importance of the message and the items for Booth, I think (1) is far the most likely scenario, as it would make no sense for him to entrust Mary with the items and message if he wasn't certain that she would be able to get to the tavern that day. RE: Louis Weichmann - HerbS - 09-21-2015 07:46 AM Roger.I think that Art Loux was dead-on with his research and writing! RE: Louis Weichmann - L Verge - 09-21-2015 09:54 AM (09-20-2015 05:45 PM)Pamela Wrote: Laurie, you made an assumption as to what I meant by the word 'concoction' which was wrong. In his book, written more than two decades after the assassination, Weichmann admitted that he, over the years, pondered the details of the day of the trip to Surrattsville on the 14th "almost incessantly". That's OCD for you! I think he suffered from a combination of OCD and PTSD (post traumatic stress syndrome). The letter from Calvert which Mrs. Surratt told Louis came on the 14th, was dated the 12th, and he believed that Mary lied to him when she said the letter arrived on the 14th because it should have arrived no later than the 13th. Mary used this urgency of timing to explain to him the necessity and the purpose of the trip, and she had him say the same in a letter he wrote to Nothey at her behest at the tavern. Nowhere in the letter did she mention an appointment with him at the tavern, or to meet her at the tavern or anywhere else, and Gynne was given the letter just after it was written and testified that he gave it to Nothey that day. Weichmann was likely wrong in thinking the letter should have arrived on the 13th. We have the schedule for the mail coach stops from D.C. to Leonardtown and back. The 13th would have been a return trip to D.C. and too late for mail delivery or pick-up. As for him being a protector during the trip, there really wasn't much need for that unless she would be hasseled by some of the Union soldiers. And, in dealing with Nothey, Mary had a better chance of appealing to his better side in dealing with a widow lady who desperately needed money. As for Emma, I certainly do think she could have delivered the field glasses and message to Lloyd. In fact, Mrs. Surratt had already given her the package, which Emma left on the parlor sofa, and was preparing to leave when Lloyd arrived home, offered her some fish, and ended up fixing her carriage. Since Emma lived here too, I suspect she was already aware of the rifles and supplies being hidden here and of the underground traffic that frequented the place. Howell's arrest here had just occurred a few weeks earlier. She was no babe in the woods -- and even if she were, that message from Booth did not let on that a dastardly deed would happen that required those items being picked up. It could have meant that the war was over so get those things and move on with life. That could even have been Mrs. Surratt's thoughts about why she was delivering such a message. RE: Louis Weichmann - L Verge - 09-21-2015 12:01 PM (09-21-2015 09:54 AM)L Verge Wrote:(09-20-2015 05:45 PM)Pamela Wrote: Laurie, you made an assumption as to what I meant by the word 'concoction' which was wrong. In his book, written more than two decades after the assassination, Weichmann admitted that he, over the years, pondered the details of the day of the trip to Surrattsville on the 14th "almost incessantly". That's OCD for you! I think he suffered from a combination of OCD and PTSD (post traumatic stress syndrome). The letter from Calvert which Mrs. Surratt told Louis came on the 14th, was dated the 12th, and he believed that Mary lied to him when she said the letter arrived on the 14th because it should have arrived no later than the 13th. Mary used this urgency of timing to explain to him the necessity and the purpose of the trip, and she had him say the same in a letter he wrote to Nothey at her behest at the tavern. Nowhere in the letter did she mention an appointment with him at the tavern, or to meet her at the tavern or anywhere else, and Gynne was given the letter just after it was written and testified that he gave it to Nothey that day. Addendum: I forgot to reply to your comment about Mrs. Surratt visiting Powell at the Herndon House. IF she had visited him in his room, it was most certainly improper. However, it is very likely that he came from his room to Mrs. Murray's parlor to meet with Mary. That would certainly be proper. Since no one went inside with her to say otherwise, we should consider that they both followed proper protocol. And, Powell's actions against the black maid and his later attempt on Seward have nothing to do with respect that he might show to a lady that he knew, probably respected, and could have been a cohort. RE: Louis Weichmann - Eva Elisabeth - 09-22-2015 04:52 PM Weichmann wrote that his father was photographed at the War Department. Does that photo still exist somewhere? Also, does a photo of Annie Ward exist? RE: Louis Weichmann - Pamela - 09-22-2015 08:06 PM I haven't looked for Annie Ward, but I looked for Louis's father and any other family picture but no luck. I wonder if they photographed everyone they put into Capital prison--it would have been a lot of pictures, and if so, what happened to them. RE: Louis Weichmann - L Verge - 09-23-2015 08:22 AM (09-22-2015 08:06 PM)Pamela Wrote: I haven't looked for Annie Ward, but I looked for Louis's father and any other family picture but no luck. I wonder if they photographed everyone they put into Capital prison--it would have been a lot of pictures, and if so, what happened to them. There are no "prison photos" of Mrs. Surratt or Dr. Mudd, both of whom were housed at Old Capitol for several weeks. My suspicion is that none of those who stayed at that prison were photographed. I have not seen a photo of Annie Ward either, and knowing the amount of contacts that Bettie Trindal made with Surratt family and friends while researching An American Tragedy, I would think she would have published such a photo if she found one. RE: Louis Weichmann - Eva Elisabeth - 09-23-2015 07:23 PM Thanks, Pamela and Laurie. RE: Louis Weichmann - Pamela - 09-25-2015 06:43 PM Has anyone translated the letters, presumably written by Louis to St Marie in French? P 504-5 The Evidence RE: Louis Weichmann - Pamela - 10-09-2015 05:40 PM (09-11-2015 09:34 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:(09-11-2015 08:28 AM)Pamela Wrote: Of course and I always keep that in mind. There are some historians that don't. Sloan's comment sounded arrogant, thoughtless and dismissive, JMO. I do think weight should be given to historical figures who knew Weichmann, watched him testify, and had important roles in those historical events. From Abel's 6 page report, "At the age of about 21 Lewis Weichman was working in the State Department and studied law at night school. He was boarding at the house of Mrs. Surrat, a southern widow who had two children, a son, John, and a daughter , Mary. The son's age was about 20 or 21, the daughter was younger. Mrs. Surrat was also a Catholic. Now Edward Stanton was Secretary of War and had a strong personality and very opinated, and that his way was the right way. He hated President Lincoln and had done everything he could against the President, and called him a big babboon." RE: Louis Weichmann - Eva Elisabeth - 10-09-2015 06:05 PM Pamela, do you perhaps know the answer to Roger's question here? http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-2691.html RE: Louis Weichmann - Susan Higginbotham - 10-09-2015 06:51 PM (10-09-2015 05:40 PM)Pamela Wrote:(09-11-2015 09:34 AM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:(09-11-2015 08:28 AM)Pamela Wrote: Of course and I always keep that in mind. There are some historians that don't. Sloan's comment sounded arrogant, thoughtless and dismissive, JMO. I do think weight should be given to historical figures who knew Weichmann, watched him testify, and had important roles in those historical events. I'm missing your point here. Is it that there are factual errors in Abel's comments (State Department, studying law, etc.)? Not surprising, given the passage of time and his age. |