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+--- Thread: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? (/thread-903.html)
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - Gene C - 05-07-2013 09:51 AM
Any connection of Philip Henson to Nicholas Cosgrove?
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - scldrgnfly - 05-07-2013 10:06 AM
Neat, Betty and Gene! As far as I know, the only letter out there that mentions Demill, is the one sent to John Surratt by R. D. Watson asking him to come to see him in New York if he could (paraphrased-at phone). He asks for John to reply care of Demill, 178 1/2 Water St., New York, New York. The Demills had a relatively small shipping concern and they had family links to Nova Scotia and "Little" Washington, North Carolina. Not only Cecil B. Demille, but Agnes Demille were part of the family. It appears that William Demill, who was a playwright might have added the e for a bit of elegance in the 1870's, I think.
Interestingly, the R. D. who sent the note, if he was the one who sent it, was not the Major Roderick Watson who lived at Clifton across Popes Creek from Thomas A. Jones and whose home was used to signal the Confederate watermen. By the time that letter was sent, March 17th or 19th 1865, Major Roderick Watson had been killed. He was struck by lightning at his home in 1862 while Thomas A. Jones was at Capitol Prison. I am pretty sure R. D. was Major Roderick Watson's son.
Here is my question for you all, was that letter a signal for John to make haste to NY to remove him from the "Coming Retribution?". Especially since, John Surratt's alias when he was hiding with the Papal Zouaves, was John "Watson?". Crazy!! Eh!?!!
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - RJNorton - 05-07-2013 12:37 PM
(05-07-2013 08:47 AM)Gene C Wrote: Is this the same Henson from the "Lincoln Conspiracy " book by Balsiger & Sellers.
In the book wasn't Henson supposed to be Booth's valet, or something like that?
I do not think the Hensen in The Lincoln Conspiracy is the same Henson as the one in Mr. Stelnick's book.
The one in Mr. Stelnick's book wanted to publish his findings on the conspiracy, but Ulysses S. Grant refused to allow it. This is what it says in Mr. Stelnick's article in the February 2010 Surratt Courier. The articles in the January and February 2010 Surratt Couriers have a lot of discussion on the topic of this thread.
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - Laurie Verge - 05-07-2013 12:55 PM
I will say that the name "Henson" keeps skipping through the tulips in relation to the assassination story. That is one of the supposed aliases that Mudd claimed Booth and Herold gave.
I seldom saw James O. Hall and Ed Steers interpret history differently, however, this supposed Mr. Reford was the cause of one such instance. The letter from Reford was found in Booth's papers within the trunk that Booth left behind at the National Hotel and now resides in the NARA's M-599 files. Tidwell, Hall, and Gaddy quoted it in Come Retribution and described it as being a loosely coded message between Reford and Booth regarding Powell. Two key words - "horses" and "ile" are believed to be codes signifying a larger conspiracy that involved Reford, Booth, and Powell.
Steers disagreed. He transcribed other sections with different spellings that leave out any reference to Powell. He does not rule out that the letter might still be a code from Reford to Booth.
Also, re Watson: R.D. Watson must have been the junior of the family. His sister, Mary, was also in the family business of espionage and is mentioned in Thomas Jones's book as maintaining the signals for men crossing the Potomac while Jones, himself, was confined to Old Capitol Prison for awhile during the war.
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - BettyO - 05-07-2013 04:02 PM
I'm going to have to pull out my copy of Come Retribution and go back over this.....
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - RJNorton - 05-07-2013 04:04 PM
Betty, the text is on p. 404. Folks who do not have the book can find the text here.
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - John Stanton - 05-07-2013 04:33 PM
Re Post #17. Not too long ago, I dug into the Watson family at Clifton, MD, and was fortunate to find a descendant - who is an Air Line Pilot, So he is not home very often. He helped me, and I did some work for him. Thus, Major Roderick G. Watson was the father. Roderick Dhu Watson was his son and was the Confederate agent in NY. The Major's daughter was Mary Augusta Watson, (PIC) and a participant in the spying. She married a Dr. CARVELL, and moved to California. Before long she came back here and lived in Colonial Beach, VA. (Her nephew, Roudolph was Mayor of Colonial Beach.) She is buried near here, since Colonial Beach has no cemeteries (Laurie / Betty O.)- her grave is one of the stops on the Charles Cawood No Escape Tour.) I have her Obit, but they mispelled her name as CARVILLE. Roderick Dhu's letter to Surratt March 19th was an effort to find an escort for Sarah Slater who was on her way to NYC alone. She had left Canada March 17/18 after the "This makes it all right" meeting. Surratt knew that Booth was already in NYC, so Booth picked up Slater in NYC and took her to D.C., where Surratt met her and took her to Richmond. (As an aside - this series of events ties Booth, Surratt, and Slater to the Water Street Address and apparently they checked-in there, when in town.)
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - L Verge - 05-07-2013 05:23 PM
I knew you had researched this, John, and was hoping you would jump in so I wouldn't have to steal your thunder.
As for Steers's disagreement with the translation of the Reford letter, you can look under "Reford" in Ed's Lincoln Assassination Encyclopedia.
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - Gene C - 05-07-2013 07:16 PM
The southern MD connections is a bit confusing to me with all the different people involved (many new names to me), but I see several names that also pop up in Ray Neff's & Leonard Guttridge's "Dark Union". There is a photo of R D Watson's home on p223, and there is a photo of a Robert Daniel Watson (same guy?) on p.215. Richard Demill is mentioned several times.
And according to Neff, it was an Edwin Henson or Hynson (photo p226) who was confused with Herold. Any connection to Phiip Henson?
And I goofed earlier in post #13, Henson was not Booth's valet. According to Neff, Booth's onetime valet was Henry Johnson p205
There seems to be a lot of conection and similiarities to info in recent post to some of the things in Dark Union.
Remember that Lincoln was not a popular president for most of his life. It is not surprising that there would be corespondance from business men that was unfavorable about him. It doesn't mean they were involved in a conspiracy to kill him. And it's highly unlikely to me, that if they were involved, that anything could be found in writing by or from them regarding a "conspiracy." And it was James McPherson, Ed Steers and Joan Chaconas that gave Dark Union a poor review.
So, please excuse me (and I don't think I'm alone) but I find the whole thing a bit confusing. Some of this "conspiracy" stuff is a bit hard to swallow. Sometimes it's hard for me to tell where the real truth ends and the fiction begins.
(But it is kind of fun!)
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - L Verge - 05-07-2013 08:26 PM
Welcome to Confusion Club, Inc., Gene. I've spent a great deal of my last forty years in a perpetual state of confusion trying to untangle new mysteries and new theories and new hoaxes related to our "fun" topic -- and I'm sure I am not alone. I keep putting up with it, however.
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - John Stanton - 05-07-2013 11:30 PM
Gene (Post24). If there wasn't any "confusion" and everything was clear and settled, we wouldn't need to communicate with one another. Don't think of it as "confusion", it is really a search for the truth. If you are confused now, can you imagine what it was like a few years ago? like nobooks on Powell, no books like The LAS book, no computers, no ready copies of the Census. People like James Hall would get an idea and write to someone far off, and wait several months for a reply - if he got a reply at all. He and others had to wait until vacation, so they could visit a Library in some distant city. We do more research in one evening than they did in a year, and we have made progress. Two years ago we didn't know whether Sarah Slater lived or died - now it's on Google. Stick with it - we need you.
PS. Does any one know what the "J. J." stood for?
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - RJNorton - 05-08-2013 04:01 AM
I am confused and trying to make sense of what is being discussed. This is simply my take on this; if I am off base about this plot, sobeit. For me personally the most interesting thing about this was what Bill Richter said (and it's also in the Surratt Courier articles). We have talked on this forum about whether the New York crowd was behind Lincoln's assassination. But now we are talking about a plot to kidnap, not murder. Lincoln was to be kidnapped on Easter, April 16th; i.e. Booth's assignment from New York was to kidnap Lincoln on that date, NOT kill him. Booth then broke ranks on that plan and assassinated Lincoln. The New York crowd was furious over the events of April 14th, and they now wanted Booth dead. So was Booth running from the feds or was he running from the New York crowd (specifically J.J. Reford)? Reford was allegedly a cold-blooded killer.(?) Is there any evidence during the 12-day manhunt that Booth feared Reford as much the feds? Any evidence he felt Reford was out to kill him (and therefore silence him) before the feds could capture him (which would give Booth the opportunity to spill the beans about the New York crowd).
Was Booth referring to the New York crowd when he wrote in his diary, "Though I have a greater desire and almost a mind to return to Washington, and in a measure clear my name - which I feel I can do."
So was Booth, a marked man, running from two entirely separate entities? Is there corroborating evidence that verifies Reford was on Booth's trail?
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - BettyO - 05-08-2013 04:49 AM
I'm finding this discussion fascinating!
I feel that there was indeed a New York connection. JWB and Powell both went to NY right after the kidnap venture failed. Certainly this was not just a lay over on a trip up to Canada to consort with the cabinet there....or was it? Powell, we know, was at the Revere House in New York where he wrote fiancee Mary Branson and instructed her to write him there. She did so but never heard another word from him, or so she said.... I've always wondered what the consultation there was about. Was it then that kidnap turned to assassination? I don't know much about this angle except for what's in Come Retribution; i.e. that via code, Reford had more or less previously met Powell in Baltimore and wanted Powell to contact JWB about "the horses." I also wonder if the "Paris" mentioned in the letter could be Paris, VA - Powell lived there with the Payne Family..... Of course, all of this was brought up at the Surratt Trial in 1867 -- after the February 20, 1865 letter was found in Booth's trunk --
It could very well be that Reford was out seeking Booth as well in order to divert others away from himself and others who were possibly connected. It could very well be that JWB's diary reference was in regards to this.... good point, Roger!
Also, Gene - you are spot on about research! I can now (via the internet) get more done in a week than I could have done in a year "back in the day" when I was first researchng Alias --- the name of the game then was type letters, visit research facilities....and wait for responses..... STILL love to visit research facilities....but one no longer has to wait like the old days! Still gratifying though....
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - RJNorton - 05-08-2013 05:58 AM
I agree, Betty. This is a fascinating discussion. I would think if Booth were to admit he was working for the Confederates, that would not necessarily be a way of clearing his name. But if he returned to Washington and told the authorities he was working for Northerners, then we have a whole new ball game...
RE: J. J. Reford and J. J. Chaffee...who were they?...Really?? - BettyO - 05-08-2013 06:13 AM
Agreed, Roger....if JWB "sang" than others would know that Copperheads were also involved in this venture - especially if big bucks were in order for big money making families with high names up north....