The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video

The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - Printable Version

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RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - Rob Wick - 06-11-2024 07:12 PM

Thanks, Roger. Looks like I've got another book to buy.

Best
Rob

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - David Lockmiller - 06-11-2024 10:12 PM

(06-11-2024 07:10 AM)Steve Wrote:
(06-11-2024 06:48 AM)mbgross Wrote: David, Thanks for the reference. I wished Donald had left a source for that. Delahay, was a colorful figure!

It's from a March 16, 1860 letter Lincoln wrote to Delahay:

https://books.google.com/books?id=LQjla5mLYdcC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=%22I+can+not+enter+the+ring+on+the+money+basis--first,+because,+in+the+main,+it+is+wrong;+and+secondly,+I+have+not,+and+can+not+get,+the+money.%22&source=bl&ots=-pKxbITswE&sig=ACfU3U25gYAPaDhsZcmLVkU5oLW2Tw6wbw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit_-OtwNOGAxUkElkFHaX-BCcQ6AF6BAghEAI#v=onepage&q=%22I%20can%20not%20enter%20the%20ring%20on%20the%20money%20basis--first%2C%20because%2C%20in%20the%20main%2C%20it%20is%20wrong%3B%20and%20secondly%2C%20I%20have%20not%2C%20and%20can%20not%20get%2C%20the%20money.%22&f=false

Steve, I see by a footnote to this letter that Lincoln wrote another letter to Delahay on April 16 implicitly asking for his assistance at the convention, which would be fairly considered an expenditure of money for a political cause.

I quote from Lincoln's April 14 letter to Delahay:

"I see by the despatches that since you wrote, Kansas has appointed Delegates and instructed them for Seward. Don't stir them up to anger, but come along to the convention, & I will do as I said about expenses."

And, footnote 2 to this letter reads: "Lincoln took the hint that he should have 'some discreet friends' at the convention early."

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - mbgross - 06-12-2024 07:57 AM

Gene, you are welcome! Don't know if you found anything in "Life on the Circuit", but in Whitney's "Lincoln the Citizen" p.290 he doesn't mention bogus tickets, but he does say there was a political "turn of the wrist, known only to wicked Chicago." I got this information from Professor Achorn's excellent book, "The Lincoln Miracle" about the convention. He won the Lincoln Prize on an earlier work.

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - RJNorton - 06-12-2024 10:44 AM

I'd be curious to read the letter written by Henry C. Fell (son of Jesse Fell) to his sisters on February 10, 1909. If anyone can find the text of this letter, please post! Thanks.

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - Rob Wick - 06-12-2024 12:13 PM

Roger,

The Fell family papers are in the Library of Congress. I've never had a need for them. They are available on microfilm so it would be possible to request the first reel through interlibrary loan and try to find it. I would be more than happy to do that if you want me to. Just let me know.

Best
Rob

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - RJNorton - 06-12-2024 12:50 PM

Rob, it appears to me that the letter referenced is the original source for the duplicate tickets story. If it is not too much work then I would love it if you can find it. The text of the letter is on p. 161 of Reinhard H. Luthin's Lincoln’s First Campaign. I do not have that book, and I cannot find a searchable web source for that particular publication (including the Internet Archive). Luthin's book is the source used by Gary Ecelbarger.

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - mbgross - 06-12-2024 02:20 PM

Roger,

I have the book, I'm just not smart enough to send a picture, if you will send me your email privately, I will send you the letter and footnote.

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - RJNorton - 06-12-2024 03:05 PM

Many thanks, Mike. I will post what you send this evening.

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - RJNorton - 06-12-2024 04:07 PM

Mike, thank you for sending these images.

[Image: Fell100.jpg]

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - Rob Wick - 06-12-2024 05:37 PM

I'm glad Mike found it because I have the book as well, but it took me about an hour to find my copy. It appears to me that this is a truncated version of the letter. If you want the entire thing, I can still request the microfilm.

Best
Rob

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - RJNorton - 06-12-2024 06:00 PM

Many thanks, Rob. That's OK. I was just trying to find out if this letter is indeed the original source for the duplicate tickets story. I would be curious if you (or any other interested forum members) know of a Lincoln book published prior to 1909 which includes the duplicate tickets information. If not, then (IMO) it seems this letter is indeed the original source of the story.

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - RJNorton - 06-13-2024 04:29 AM

Many thanks to Rob for sending this article. Rob writes, "This appears to be the earliest mention of the convention ticket taken from Burlingame's notes. It was in 1882." The article is from the September 28, 1882, edition of the Chicago Tribune.

http://rogerjnorton.com/tickets.pdf

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - RJNorton - 06-14-2024 04:31 AM

Thank you to Steve for sending this information. Steve writes, "I found an even earlier article about the packing of the 1860 convention with Lincoln supporters. It's from page 3 of the 24 July 1878 edition of the Chicago Inter-Ocean. I've also included pages from Gustave Koerner's memoir which mention the incident. The memoir was published posthumously in 1909, with the editor's note at the beginning stating that Koerner wrote it between the years 1889 to 1895."

[Image: convention100.jpg]

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - David Lockmiller - 06-15-2024 02:24 PM

I was re-reading this morning Doris Kearns Goodwin's first chapter in her book Team of Rivals when I realized just how fortuitous were the circumstances for Lincoln at the time of the Republican Convention being held in Chicago and the previous Illinois state convention having been held in Decatur, Illinois (Lincoln's first hometown in Illinois).

Chapter I, page 1 begins:
On May 18, 1860, the day when the Republican Party would nominate its candidate for president, Abraham Lincoln was up early. . . . The Republicans had chosen to meet in Chicago. A new convention hall called the "Wigwam" had been constructed for the occasion. The first ballot was not due to be called until 10a.m. [Later that day,] Lincoln "learned that his longtime friend James Conkling had returned unexpectedly from the convention the previous evening. (p. 6) [At Conkling's office], Conkling related all he had seen and heard in the previous two days before leaving the Wigwam. Conkling told Lincoln that Seward was in trouble, that he had enemies not only in other states but at home in New York. If Seward was not nominated on the first ballot, Conkling predicted, Lincoln would be the nominee. . . . Lincoln replied that "he hardly thought this could be possible and that in case Mr. Seward was not nominated on the first ballot, it was his judgment that Mr. Chase of Ohio or Mr. Bates of Missouri would be the nominee." Conkling disagreed, citing reasons why each of those two candidates would have difficulty securing the nomination. Assessing the situation with his characteristic clearheadedness, Lincoln could not fail to perceive some truth in what his friend was saying; yet having tasted so many disappointments, he saw no benefit in letting his hopes run wild. "Well, Conkling," he said slowly, "I believe I will go back to my office and practice law." (pages 10- 11.)

Meanwhile, on May 18, in Auburn, New York, pages 11 - 12 read:
William Henry Seward had left Washington three days earlier to repair to his hometown of Auburn, New York, situated in the Finger Lakes Region of the most populous state of the Union, to share the anticipated Republican nomination in the company of family and friends. . . . Midmorning of the day of the nomination, a large cannon was hauled from the Auburn Armory into the park. "The cannoneers were stationed at their posts," the local newspaper reported, "the fire lighted, the ammunition ready, and all waiting for the signal, to make the city and county echo to joyful news" that was expected to unleash the most spectacular celebration the city had ever known. . . . Local restaurants had stocked up with food. Banners were being prepared, flags were set to be raised, and in the basement of the chief hotel, hundreds of bottles of champagne stood ready to be uncorked.

Regarding the importance of the Republican state convention having been held previously in Decatur, Illinois , pages 6 and 9 read:
That [Lincoln] had garnered the support of the Illinois delegation at the state convention at Decatur earlier that month was widely understood to be a "complimentary" gesture. (p. 6) Lincoln's success in the East bolstered his supporters at home. On May 10, the fired-up Republican state convention at Decatur nominated him for president, labeling him "the Rail Candidate for President" after two fence rails he had supposedly split in his youth were ceremoniously carried into the hall. The following week, the powerful Chicago Press and Tribune formally endorsed Lincoln, arguing that his moderate politics represented the thinking of most people, that he would come into the contest "with no clogs, no embarrassment," an "honest man" who represented all the "fundamentals of Republicanism," with "due respect for the rights of the South." (p. 9)

Regarding the Lincoln's strategy for gaining the Republican nomination in Chicago, page 10 reads:
Recognizing that Seward held a commanding lead at the start, followed by Chase and Bates, Lincoln's strategy was to give offense to no one. He wanted to leave the delegates "in a mood to come to us, if they shall be compelled to give up their first love." (A. Lincoln to Sam Galloway, March 24, 1860, in Complete Works, IV, p. 34) This was clearly understood by Lincoln's team in Chicago and by all the delegates whom Judge Davis had commandeered to join the fight. "We are laboring to make you second choice of all the Delegations we can, where we can't make you first choice," Scott County delegate Nathan Knapp told Lincoln when he first arrived in Chicago. . . . Knapp's message was followed by one from Davis himself on the second day of the convention. "Am very hopeful," he warned Lincoln, but "dont be Excited."

RE: The Lincolns in Kentucky -Video - David Lockmiller - 06-16-2024 09:41 AM

(06-15-2024 02:24 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote: Recognizing that Seward held a commanding lead at the start, followed by Chase and Bates, Lincoln's strategy was to give offense to no one. He wanted to leave the delegates "in a mood to come to us, if they shall be compelled to give up their first love." (A. Lincoln to Sam Galloway, March 24, 1860, in Complete Works, IV, p. 34)

Hon. Samuel Galloway Chicago, March 24 1860
My dear Sir: I am here attending a trial in court. Before leaving home I received your kind letter of the 15th. Of course I am gratified to know I have friends in Ohio who are disposed to give me the highest evidence of their friendship and confidence. Mr Parrott of the Legislature, had written me to the same effect. If I have any chance, it consists mainly in the fact that the whole opposition would vote for me if nominated. (I don't mean to include the pro-slavery opposition of the South, of course.) My name is new in the field; and I suppose I am not the first choice of a very great many. Our policy, then, is to give no offence to others---leave them in a mood to come to us, if they shall be compelled to give up their first love. This, too, is dealing justly with all, and leaving us in a mood to support heartily whoever shall be nominated. I believe I have once before told you that I especially wish to do no ungenerous thing towards Governor Chase, because he gave us his sympathy in 1858, when scarcely any other distinguished man did. Whatever you may do for me, consistently with these suggestions, will be appreciated, and gratefully remembered.

Please write me again. Yours very truly A. LINCOLN