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+--- Forum: Assassination (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Derringer (/thread-3784.html)
Pages: 1 2
RE: Derringer - Wild Bill - 07-31-2018 05:31 AM
How about Booth only had one pistol? It was given to him in Montgomery, Alabama, by a friend, Philip Henson, for self defense when he was threatened with mob action for questioning secession. At least that was the claim (excuse me for using a dirty name) of the late Rick Stelnick in his unpublished manuscript, Dixie Reckoning, p. 69, in the version I have. I believe that one can get a copy as a PDF, but that may no longer be true.
RE: Derringer - Gene C - 07-31-2018 06:36 AM
It's still available.
https://www.amazon.com/DIXIE-RECKONING-Rick-Stelnick-ebook/dp/B00H0OL4Q8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533036071&sr=8-1&keywords=rick+stelnick
I've read and reviewed this book about Phillip Henson
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-2652.html?highlight=henson
RE: Derringer - RJNorton - 07-31-2018 06:56 AM
(07-31-2018 05:31 AM)Wild Bill Wrote: How about Booth only had one pistol? It was given to him in Montgomery, Alabama, by a friend, Philip Henson, for self defense when he was threatened with mob action for questioning secession. At least that was the claim (excuse me for using a dirty name) of the late Rick Stelnick in his unpublished manuscript, Dixie Reckoning, p. 69, in the version I have. I believe that one can get a copy as a PDF, but that may no longer be true.
(07-31-2018 06:36 AM)Gene C Wrote: It's still available.
https://www.amazon.com/DIXIE-RECKONING-Rick-Stelnick-ebook/dp/B00H0OL4Q8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533036071&sr=8-1&keywords=rick+stelnick
I've read and reviewed this book about Phillip Henson
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-2652.html?highlight=henson
I do not have the book, but I was able to find this in the Kindle version on Amazon:
Henson says: "John Wilkes, you may march to a different drummer, but you can’t expect other folks to march with you too. If I were you, I would carry a gun like this on your person, just in case something like tonight comes up. It’s a single shot pocket pistol made by Henry Deringer of Philadelphia. Only weighs eight ounces and is six inches long with a two and a half inch barrel. Fires a .41 caliber lead ball. They’re sold in matching pairs. I have another just like it. Here, take it, its yours."
RE: Derringer - LincolnMan - 07-31-2018 10:53 AM
Any date given as to when the pistol was gifted to Booth?
RE: Derringer - RJNorton - 07-31-2018 11:17 AM
(07-31-2018 10:53 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: Any date given as to when the pistol was gifted to Booth?
According to Dixie Reckoning it was when Booth was playing in Montgomery, Alabama (late 1860). There are endnotes for the information on Booth obtaining the derringer from Henson (numbers 153 and 154), but since I do not have the book, I cannot tell you Stelnick's sources for this information. Amazon only has a sample of the book online, and what is online does not include the endnotes.
RE: Derringer - Wild Bill - 07-31-2018 11:56 AM
Fn from Philip Henson papers and photos, courtesy of Grace Henson White, p. 366 in the ms I have.
RE: Derringer - Gene C - 07-31-2018 01:48 PM
As far as I can tell, no one has been able to prove, verify, or has personally viewed the Philip Henson papers and photos.
I personally don't believe they exist.
We have discussed this before in the tread "The Booth Deringer Pistol" post # 19 & 22
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-3217-post-62809.html?highlight=dixie+reckoning#pid62809
Wild Bill wrote
"At the risk of having everyone saying, "Is that idiot back again?" I refer you all to Rick Henson's Dixie Reckoning, of which I have a manuscript. I believe that Laurie has one,too, and it also is available in Kindle (unfortunately a very expensive price) I believe.
But As Laurie said above, Booth was in trouble in Montgomery, Ala, with either a cuckolded husband or a more radical secessionist mob (Booth was a Cooperationist at this time in his life, see Richter, Sic Semper Tyrannis) and Philip Henson, Stelnick's "hero," gave Booth one of his Derringers for protection. Hence it is one of a pair, only he did not have both. Did he not drop it in the theater box before he jumped?
Stelnick uses as a reference Grace Henson White's papers which include Henson's story of his spying activities for US Grant during the Civil War. To my knowledge, no one has seen these papers but Stelnick and White, so you pays your money and takes your choice as to the accuracy of this tale. I do not think anyone knows where White is or even if she still lives and Stelnick died from a heart condition two to three years ago during Hurricane Sandy. Where his papers are, no one knows. "
Laurie wrote
"At the risk of having everyone saying, "Is that idiot back again?" I refer you all to Rick Henson's Dixie Reckoning, of which I have a manuscript. I believe that Laurie has one,too, and it also is available in Kindle (unfortunately a very expensive price) I believe."
After being threatened by Mr. Stelnick, I sent back everything that he had sent me (even though he had not asked for them). There are two issues of the Surratt Courier, dating back 6-7 years(?,) that carried two articles that he wrote -- very lengthy and very confusing. The index to the Couriers is on the Surratt website at surrattmuseum.com. We sell back issues for $1 each.
Jane Singer of this forum contacted Grace Henson White as soon as I slipped the info to her. Ms. White was very cordial and amenable to talking on the first phone call. When Jane called back, she hung up as quickly as possible, claiming that she didn't know anything. We suspected that a certain someone had warned her to shut up.
Both Bill and I spoke with Stelnick's original publisher. Stelnick vanished on him also. One of the more "interesting" characters during my tenure at Surratt House. "
RE: Derringer - L Verge - 07-31-2018 02:11 PM
To this day, I still keep a file on Rick Stelnick -- just in case he rises from the dead (and I wouldn't put anything past him...). However, despite fighting a series of lawsuits not related to history, the man did an incredible amount of research and/or fabrications. I never figured out whether he was a true historian or a shyster.
RE: Derringer - RJNorton - 07-31-2018 02:44 PM
(07-31-2018 02:11 PM)L Verge Wrote: To this day, I still keep a file on Rick Stelnick -- just in case he rises from the dead (and I wouldn't put anything past him...).
The only statement I have ever seen on this is on the Progressive Press website.
"January 19, 2014. Rick Stelnick passed away from heart failure in Florida Hospital, Altamonte Springs. He was survived by a son, and by the women in his life: his estranged wife, his partner, his ex-partner, and his ex-wife. Rick was born in 1953, attended Brooklyn Technical High School, and lived most of his life in New Jersey."
http://www.progressivepress.com/author/rick-stelnick
RE: Derringer - Wesley Harris - 07-31-2018 06:23 PM
(07-31-2018 05:31 AM)Wild Bill Wrote: How about Booth only had one pistol? It was given to him in Montgomery, Alabama, by a friend, Philip Henson, for self defense when he was threatened with mob action for questioning secession. At least that was the claim (excuse me for using a dirty name) of the late Rick Stelnick in his unpublished manuscript, Dixie Reckoning, p. 69, in the version I have. I believe that one can get a copy as a PDF, but that may no longer be true.He provides no source for that information that can be independently verified.
(07-31-2018 06:56 AM)RJNorton Wrote:(07-31-2018 05:31 AM)Wild Bill Wrote: How about Booth only had one pistol? It was given to him in Montgomery, Alabama, by a friend, Philip Henson, for self defense when he was threatened with mob action for questioning secession. At least that was the claim (excuse me for using a dirty name) of the late Rick Stelnick in his unpublished manuscript, Dixie Reckoning, p. 69, in the version I have. I believe that one can get a copy as a PDF, but that may no longer be true.
(07-31-2018 06:36 AM)Gene C Wrote: It's still available.
https://www.amazon.com/DIXIE-RECKONING-Rick-Stelnick-ebook/dp/B00H0OL4Q8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533036071&sr=8-1&keywords=rick+stelnick
I've read and reviewed this book about Phillip Henson
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-2652.html?highlight=henson
I do not have the book, but I was able to find this in the Kindle version on Amazon:
Henson says: "John Wilkes, you may march to a different drummer, but you can’t expect other folks to march with you too. If I were you, I would carry a gun like this on your person, just in case something like tonight comes up. It’s a single shot pocket pistol made by Henry Deringer of Philadelphia. Only weighs eight ounces and is six inches long with a two and a half inch barrel. Fires a .41 caliber lead ball. They’re sold in matching pairs. I have another just like it. Here, take it, its yours."
Information given in a lengthy quote like that when neither Henson nor Booth were around to verify it is pretty suspect to me. Booth purchased a whole trunk of weapons in NYC. He could have gotten the Deringer anywhere. And even if Henson did give him a pistol, no guarantee it was the same one found at Ford's Theatre.
RE: Derringer - Steve - 07-31-2018 06:58 PM
(07-31-2018 11:56 AM)Wild Bill Wrote: Fn from Philip Henson papers and photos, courtesy of Grace Henson White, p. 366 in the ms I have.That's an obfuscation, not a reference. It doesn't mention if it came from a letter, diary entry, newspaper interview, memoir, etc
RE: Derringer - Steve - 08-01-2018 02:37 PM
According to Philip Henson's 1887 authorized biography, he moved to a farm a few months away from Corinth, Mississippi:
https://archive.org/stream/philiphensonsou00johngoog#page/n100/mode/2up
I found Philip Henson in the 1870 census in Alcorn County, Mississippi (near Corinth) with a wife and two children (aged 8 and 5).
I also found Philip Henson as a witness in several Southern Claims Commission applications dating from 1871 - 1877 with his residence being listed in/near Corinth and his occupation as farmer. Apparently, his service to the Union made him a good witness to the character of applicants. This Unionist farmer near Corinth matches the description Henson gives of himself in his book.
I don't see how it's possible he could be a "Secret Service agent" working for President Grant secretly investigating the Lincoln assassination while also being a small farmer in rural Mississippi and frequently testifying on neighbors/friends behalf in Mississippi. Am I missing something here? If the "Philip Henson papers" do exist, why do they contradict both the account he gave during his lifetime and the records of his whereabouts. So, I don't see how the story of Henson giving Booth the derringer is credible, he didn't mention it in his 1887 account - even to just bemoan it!
RE: Derringer - RJNorton - 08-01-2018 02:48 PM
(08-01-2018 02:37 PM)Steve Wrote: I don't see how it's possible he could be a "Secret Service agent" working for President Grant secretly investigating the Lincoln assassination while also being a small farmer in rural Mississippi and frequently testifying on neighbors/friends behalf in Mississippi. Am I missing something here? If the "Philip Henson papers" do exist, why do they contradict both the account he gave during his lifetime and the records of his whereabouts. So, I don't see how the story of Henson giving Booth the derringer is credible, he didn't mention it in his 1887 account - even to just bemoan it!
It has long been my personal opinion that the Wikipedia article on Philip Henson was written by the late Rick Stelnick.
RE: Derringer - Steve - 08-01-2018 05:30 PM
(08-01-2018 02:48 PM)RJNorton Wrote: It has long been my personal opinion that the Wikipedia article on Philip Henson was written by the late Rick Stelnick.Roger,
Your suspicions have proven correct. According to Wikipedia's authorship log for the article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Philip_Henson&offset=&limit=500&action=history
User:Rstelnick wrote about 3/4 of the article from 2009 to 2011
RE: Derringer - L Verge - 08-01-2018 05:30 PM
In reference to the "Secret Service agent" claim and the undercover investigation of the Lincoln assassination for President Grant, it sounded like that movie of a decade or so ago about the Book of Secrets. I took it upon myself to send an "official" museum letter (on our gov't letterhead) to both the FBI and the CIA. At that time, they both had official historians. I never received any reply at all.
I know absolutely nothing about this site, but they appear to be offering free downloads of Dixie Reckoning, if you really really want to wade through it.
Dixie Reckoning - free pdf download sites - infinity-residence2
infinity-residence2.com/wp-contents/uploads/infinity.../pdf/dixie_reckoning.pdf
7 days ago - history buffs alike for almost a century and a half, by. Amazon.com: DIXIE RECKONING eBook: Rick Stelnick, Bill ... DIXIE RECKONING - Kindle