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+--- Thread: Atzerodt Confession (/thread-3292.html)
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RE: Atzerodt Confession - John Fazio - 02-20-2017 08:03 AM
(02-20-2017 06:03 AM)RJNorton Wrote:(02-19-2017 09:51 PM)John Fazio Wrote: and saw Booth, Wood and Payne in Wood's room". Here he clearly differentiates between Wood and Payne, indicating that they were two separate people.
John, the copy I am looking at says ..."and I saw Booth, Wood or Payne in Wood's room."
I am seeing the word "or" not "and."
I think Atzerodt used several names for the same man - Lewis Powell. When he says "Wood or Payne" in the July 6 confession he is talking about the same person (Powell), not two separate people, IMO.
IMO, he is referring to Powell's room at the Herndon House when he calls it Wood's room.
Roger:
The copy of the confession that appears in Weichmann's book does in fact say "Wood or Payne", as you say, but the copy of the same confession that appeared in the July 1, 1869, Baltimore American says "Wood and Payne". Does anyone know how the original confession REALLY reads?
Even if the original really reads "Wood or Payne", we still have the problem of an unnecessary introduction by Booth inasmuch as Atzerodt had already met Powell at Gautier's. And we still have the strange reference to "Woods" as someone Atzerodt saw at the Navy Yard at about midnight after the assassination. In this connection, recall that in his April 25 confession, Atzerodt said that after the 8:00 Herndon House meeting broke up, at which Powell was present, "...we parted then & I have never seen them since." That would be inconsistent with seeing Powell ("Woods") at the Navy Yard at midnight. Of course, it is always possible that Atzerodt's memory was impaired by all his drinking and by the excitement of the events, or he may simply have been lying when he said he didn't see any of them after the meeting, as a way of putting distance between him and the assassins.
It's still a "puzzlement".
John
RE: Atzerodt Confession - JMadonna - 02-20-2017 10:20 AM
Perhaps he was referring to one man as Wood & the other as Woods? Powell (as Wood) would not have been trying to open a theater in Richmond. It has to be two different people.
Another puzzlement.
RR Jones the book keeper of the Kirkwood stated:
"I don’t know whether Atzerodt asked anything about Mr. Johnson or his room, but some person, a tall, rough looking man, one that looked like a carpenter, did ask if Mr. Johnson roomed here and was in? He was very tall, had on a black slouch hat and I think a light colored coat. He was a light complexioned man, without beard. He asked in a rough way. I answered him rather shortly, because I judged from his appearance that he had no business with Mr. Johnson. I told him he was not in."
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that describe Powell? Why would he be there asking for Johnson?
RE: Atzerodt Confession - John Fazio - 02-20-2017 12:21 PM
(02-20-2017 10:20 AM)JMadonna Wrote: Perhaps he was referring to one man as Wood & the other as Woods? Powell (as Wood) would not have been trying to open a theater in Richmond. It has to be two different people.
Another puzzlement.
RR Jones the book keeper of the Kirkwood stated:
"I don’t know whether Atzerodt asked anything about Mr. Johnson or his room, but some person, a tall, rough looking man, one that looked like a carpenter, did ask if Mr. Johnson roomed here and was in? He was very tall, had on a black slouch hat and I think a light colored coat. He was a light complexioned man, without beard. He asked in a rough way. I answered him rather shortly, because I judged from his appearance that he had no business with Mr. Johnson. I told him he was not in."
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that describe Powell? Why would he be there asking for Johnson?
Jerry:
Atzerodt's exact words, after the introduction, were "...and proposed to go to Richmond to open a theater if we could get passes". It is unclear who is going to Richmond: Booth, Atzerodt or "James Wood", or more than one of them.
As for Jones's statement, Johnson was a target, of that I am sure. Booth told Atzerodt that he and Herold had zeroed in on him. It doesn't surprise me that at some point in the days immediately preceding the assassination, Booth would ask Powell to do something for him that involved Johnson at the Kirkwood.
John
RE: Atzerodt Confession - Gene C - 02-20-2017 12:23 PM
(02-20-2017 10:20 AM)JMadonna Wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that describe Powell? Why would he be there asking for Johnson?
You'd think the detectives would ask the same question.
Why would Powell be at the Navy Yard bridge if he's headed for Baltimore.
Doesn't seem like getting access to Johnson was all that difficult, if you could find him.
Can't say I find much validity to the conspiracy having so many involved, it the best you can find to kill the VP was Atz.
You'd think they would have him back in southern MD to help Booth & company escape across the river, and have someone else of the many supposed conspirators take care of Johnson.
RE: Atzerodt Confession - JMadonna - 02-20-2017 01:29 PM
(02-20-2017 12:23 PM)Gene C Wrote:(02-20-2017 10:20 AM)JMadonna Wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that describe Powell? Why would he be there asking for Johnson?
You'd think the detectives would ask the same question.
Why would Powell be at the Navy Yard bridge if he's headed for Baltimore.
Well if Powell was getting a pass from Johnson maybe he would have headed for the Navy Yard bridge too rather than the Bennings bridge to Baltimore.
RE: Atzerodt Confession - JMadonna - 02-20-2017 06:50 PM
AHA! I think I got it.
When Atzerodt described Wood he said: Wood is a tall man with black hair; straight. He is a strong stout-made man; no hair on his face; rather poor; he is rather a good-looking man. I can’t remember faces or features well enough to describe them.
If he couldn't remember faces or features he would not have been able to remember Powell at the earlier meeting at Gautier's because Booth introduced him as "Mosby".
RE: Atzerodt Confession - John Fazio - 02-20-2017 08:16 PM
(02-20-2017 06:50 PM)JMadonna Wrote: AHA! I think I got it.
When Atzerodt described Wood he said: Wood is a tall man with black hair; straight. He is a strong stout-made man; no hair on his face; rather poor; he is rather a good-looking man. I can’t remember faces or features well enough to describe them.
If he couldn't remember faces or features he would not have been able to remember Powell at the earlier meeting at Gautier's because Booth introduced him as "Mosby".
Jerry:
You may be on to something here, but bear in mind that Gautier's was on March 15 and this introduction was therefore only one month later. It is a little hard to imagine that Atzerodt could not distinguish a face he met only one month previously, but it is certainly possible. It is as good an explanation as any other offered, but we still have the problem of "Woods" at the Navy Yard. Smoot said that co-conspirators were prepared to receive only three assassins in Virginia. That would appear to be Booth, Herold and Atzerodt, the latter being needed for navigation. This squares with the questions put to Cobb by Herold when he crossed the bridge and with the conversation between Atzerodt and Booth at the 8:00 pm Herndon House meeting, wherein Atzerodt agreed to be their guide that night. Atzerodt's decision not to follow the other two, but to head for his cousin's farm near Baltimore instead, was most likely motivated by his failure to kill Johnson and his fear of being berated as a consequence. In any case, Powell does not appear to have been contemplated to be with Booth and Herold, which squares with the evidence we have as to his destination that night. Why, then, would he be at the Navy Yard, far from where his horse was later found. If he was not at the Navy Yard, then who is "Woods".
John
RE: Atzerodt Confession - JMadonna - 02-20-2017 09:00 PM
(02-20-2017 08:16 PM)John Fazio Wrote: Jerry:
You may be on to something here, but bear in mind that Gautier's was on March 15 and this introduction was therefore only one month later. It is a little hard to imagine that Atzerodt could not distinguish a face he met only one month previously, but it is certainly possible. It is as good an explanation as any other offered, but we still have the problem of "Woods" at the Navy Yard. Smoot said that co-conspirators were prepared to receive only three assassins in Virginia. That would appear to be Booth, Herold and Atzerodt, the latter being needed for navigation. This squares with the questions put to Cobb by Herold when he crossed the bridge and with the conversation between Atzerodt and Booth at the 8:00 pm Herndon House meeting, wherein Atzerodt agreed to be their guide that night. Atzerodt's decision not to follow the other two, but to head for his cousin's farm near Baltimore instead, was most likely motivated by his failure to kill Johnson and his fear of being berated as a consequence. In any case, Powell does not appear to have been contemplated to be with Booth and Herold, which squares with the evidence we have as to his destination that night. Why, then, would he be at the Navy Yard, far from where his horse was later found. If he was not at the Navy Yard, then who is "Woods".
John
At Gautier's it's probable that Atzerdot hung around Surratt (the one who hired him) and Booth hung with "Mosby" while Herold went out to get Arnold and O'Laughlin. After a few Brandy's, George probably could not remember the new people.
As far as the night of the assassination George was probably having drunken hallucinations. I trust the testimony of a sober Washington Briscoe who put the drunken Atzerdot back on the horse car away from the Navy Yard bridge at about 11:30 and back to the city. I think by midnight George was too drunk to ride a horse .
RE: Atzerodt Confession - RJNorton - 02-21-2017 05:06 AM
Was the "final meeting" on the night of April 13th or 14th?
On pp. 214-215 of American Brutus Mike Kauffman has Booth meeting with Herold and Atzerodt in Powell's room at the Herndon House on the night of the 13th. Mike goes on to say that it was at this time that Booth explained all the various assignments as to who would kill whom. I looked to see if Mike has another Herndon House meeting on the 14th and could not find that he does. I know that Powell checked out at about 4 P.M. on the 14th.
I realize most authors have the "final meeting" on the 14th, but could it actually have been on the 13th instead?
RE: Atzerodt Confession - JMadonna - 02-21-2017 07:31 AM
Probably 2 meetings one on the 13th at Herndon and final meeting on the 14th, somewhere else. Atzerodt states he did not know of the assassination until that 'final meeting' on the 14th which makes sense unless George went on a 2 day bender.
RE: Atzerodt Confession - John Fazio - 02-21-2017 08:58 AM
Jerry and Roger:
The evidence that the final meeting occurred in Powell's room at the Herndon House at 8:00 pm on the 14th is very strong, namely: Powell's statements to Eckert and Doster, Atzerodt's May 1 confession, Atzerodt's trial statement, Doster's two summations to the Commissioners at the trial and Atzerodt's July 6 confession. I hasten to add, however, that there is also sufficient evidence to conclude that an afternoon meeting was held on April 14, either in a music hall on Pennsylvania Avenue or in Powell's room or both. Powell may have retained a key to the room after his 4:00 pm checkout, or perhaps he just left the door open, or perhaps Mrs. Murray authorized use of the room for the meeting but said nothing about it to the Commissioners because she feared being implicated in the conspiracy.
John
RE: Atzerodt Confession - JMadonna - 03-18-2017 01:59 PM
(02-20-2017 06:50 PM)JMadonna Wrote: AHA! I think I got it.
When Atzerodt described Wood he said: Wood is a tall man with black hair; straight. He is a strong stout-made man; no hair on his face; rather poor; he is rather a good-looking man. I can’t remember faces or features well enough to describe them.
If he couldn't remember faces or features he would not have been able to remember Powell at the earlier meeting at Gautier's because Booth introduced him as "Mosby".
Looking through Steer's The Evidence - there is a man actually named Lewis Mosby who was nicknamed the colonel. He seems to have been a bartender at the Simpson House.
This may well have been the man Atzerodt saw at Gautiers NOT Lewis Powell. If so he was the only man in that group to escape!