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+--- Thread: The Booth Deringer pistol (/thread-3217.html)
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - STS Lincolnite - 12-19-2016 10:32 AM
(12-19-2016 10:18 AM)loetar44 Wrote: After some Googling I found at the "Believe it or Not" website at
http://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/booth-derringer/
again the info that a Deringer was found on Booth after he was shot at Garrett's.
The article "Fireball Run & John Wilkes Booth’s Derringer" says: "After a massive manhunt, Booth was gunned down in a farmhouse in Virginia. On his body was a second identical matching derringer, etc."
Don't know how "historical reliable" this site is, or if it is (with respect) a "fun site". Anyway, the video and photo's of the Deringer which Gifford found are in my opinion very nice!
Hmmm...I wonder where they got this information?!
But since it is "Believe it or Not", I think for the time being I will definitely be in the "not" category!
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - RJNorton - 12-19-2016 10:51 AM
In August 2012 Rich Smyth posted this list of what was found on Booth at Garrett's.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - loetar44 - 12-19-2016 10:59 AM
(12-19-2016 10:32 AM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:(12-19-2016 10:18 AM)loetar44 Wrote: After some Googling I found at the "Believe it or Not" website at
http://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/booth-derringer/
again the info that a Deringer was found on Booth after he was shot at Garrett's.
The article "Fireball Run & John Wilkes Booth’s Derringer" says: "After a massive manhunt, Booth was gunned down in a farmhouse in Virginia. On his body was a second identical matching derringer, etc."
Don't know how "historical reliable" this site is, or if it is (with respect) a "fun site". Anyway, the video and photo's of the Deringer which Gifford found are in my opinion very nice!
Hmmm...I wonder where they got this information?!
But since it is "Believe it or Not", I think for the time being I will definitely be in the "not" category!
I'm with you, and I think a lot are with us!
(12-19-2016 10:51 AM)RJNorton Wrote: In August 2012 Rich Smyth posted this list of what was found on Booth at Garrett's.
Nice list! Thank you!
The two revolvers were definitely the .36 caliber Colt Model 1851 Navy revolver and the .44 Colt Model 1860 Army revolver, I mentioned before.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Wild Bill - 12-19-2016 12:10 PM
At the risk of having everyone saying, "Is that idiot back again?" I refer you all to Rick Henson's Dixie Reckoning, of which I have a manuscript. I believe that Laurie has one,too, and it also is available in Kindle (unfortunately a very expensive price) I believe.
But As Laurie said above, Booth was in trouble in Montgomery, Ala, with either a cuckolded husband or a more radical secessionist mob (Booth was a Cooperationist at this time in his life, see Richter, Sic Semper Tyrannis) and Philip Henson, Stelnick's "hero," gave Booth one of his Derringers for protection. Hence it is one of a pair, only he did not have both. Did he not drop it in the theater box before he jumped?
Stelnick uses as a reference Grace Henson White's papers which include Henson's story of his spying activities for US Grant during the Civil War. To my knowledge, no one has seen these papers but Stelnick and White, so you pays your money and takes your choice as to the accuracy of this tale. I do not think anyone knows where White is or even if she still lives and Stelnick died from a heart condition two to three years ago during Hurricane Sandy. Where his papers are, no one knows.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - STS Lincolnite - 12-19-2016 01:49 PM
(12-19-2016 10:51 AM)RJNorton Wrote: In August 2012 Rich Smyth posted this list of what was found on Booth at Garrett's.
I think there were some other threads where this topic came up as well. I seem to recall that someone mentioned that in one of the trial transcripts (or maybe elsewhere), someone also testifies or reports that Booth had in his possession a meerschaum pipe when he was killed at Garrett's. Can't recall who at the moment.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Wild Bill - 12-19-2016 01:51 PM
I agree with STS Lincolnite on at least one threat on this stuff before, maybe more
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - L Verge - 12-19-2016 01:57 PM
"At the risk of having everyone saying, "Is that idiot back again?" I refer you all to Rick Henson's Dixie Reckoning, of which I have a manuscript. I believe that Laurie has one,too, and it also is available in Kindle (unfortunately a very expensive price) I believe."
After being threatened by Mr. Stelnick, I sent back everything that he had sent me (even though he had not asked for them). There are two issues of the Surratt Courier, dating back 6-7 years(?,) that carried two articles that he wrote -- very lengthy and very confusing. The index to the Couriers is on the Surratt website at surrattmuseum.com. We sell back issues for $1 each.
Jane Singer of this forum contacted Grace Henson White as soon as I slipped the info to her. Ms. White was very cordial and amenable to talking on the first phone call. When Jane called back, she hung up as quickly as possible, claiming that she didn't know anything. We suspected that a certain someone had warned her to shut up.
Both Bill and I spoke with Stelnick's original publisher. Stelnick vanished on him also. One of the more "interesting" characters during my tenure at Surratt House.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - STS Lincolnite - 12-19-2016 02:02 PM
(12-19-2016 01:49 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:(12-19-2016 10:51 AM)RJNorton Wrote: In August 2012 Rich Smyth posted this list of what was found on Booth at Garrett's.
I think there were some other threads where this topic came up as well. I seem to recall that someone mentioned that in one of the trial transcripts (or maybe elsewhere), someone also testifies or reports that Booth had in his possession a meerschaum pipe when he was killed at Garrett's. Can't recall who at the moment.
Alright I did a little digging and I found what I was looking for in post #33 of the thread entitled "JWB and his pipe!" My memory is getting faulty, as it turns out I was the one who posted about the testimony indicating Booth had a meerschaum pipe on his possession when he died. Yikes! Here is what I had written in that post:
"According to Lt. L. B. Baker's testimony at the Johnson Impeachment trial, he removed a meerschaum pipe from Booth's pocket. It was then turned over to the War Department with other articles that had been in Booth's possession. Later in the published account of the impeachment trial, Thomas Eckert testified that he had a memorandum (apparently in his hand while testifying) that a pipe taken from Booth had been turned over to Col. Burnet (I assume this was special advocate judge H.L. Burnett).
This, to me, strongly supports the idea that Booth did in fact have a Meerschaum pipe in his possession at the time of his demise."
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - RJNorton - 12-19-2016 02:36 PM
A Meerschaum pipe belonging to Booth was supposed to be here:
![[Image: PETER-GRUBER-RESTAURANT-MUSEUM-ROCHESTER...ESNAKE.jpg]](http://thumbs4.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/381796840087_/PETER-GRUBER-RESTAURANT-MUSEUM-ROCHESTER-NY-RATTLESNAKE.jpg)
Sadly, as Herb reported, the place burned down.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - STS Lincolnite - 12-19-2016 02:48 PM
(12-19-2016 02:36 PM)RJNorton Wrote: A Meerschaum pipe belonging to Booth was supposed to be here:
Sadly, as Herb reported, the place burned down.
Roger, thanks for posting that ad. I had not seen it before.
Here is a link to the thread which discussed JWB, the meerschaum pipe(s), and the Rochester museum that Roger mentioned.
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/thread-1661.html?highlight=meerschaum
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - loetar44 - 12-20-2016 08:49 AM
Here is the meerschaum (= a the soft white clay mineral, known as sepiolite) tobacco pipe once owned by Ulysses S. Grant. Yes, meerschaum pipes are expensive, appr. $135 nowadays.
[attachment=2508]
There was money found on Booth. Which amount? Just to have the picture complete.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - loetar44 - 12-21-2016 10:50 AM
Just found at Dave Taylor's excellent site that $45 to $75 in greenbacks was found on Booth's body. Great research Dave! I'm a GREAT admirer of all your more than brilliant work!
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Dennis Urban - 12-21-2016 04:27 PM
The deringer pictured in the Ripley's article is not a "second identical matching derringer" (sic). That is a gun with a shorter barrel, commonly referred to as a "peanut" deringer among collectors and clearly not the second of a matching pair. There are several other differences between the gun pictured and the actual assassination piece. I am not an authority, but I know enough to immediately recognize what was pictured.
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - Wesley Harris - 12-27-2016 02:48 PM
The Gifford or "Ripley" pistol is just one of several that were supposedly found in, behind, near, or not-so-near Ford's Theatre. There's about a half-dozen accounts of people finding pistols here and there after the assassination. The others disappeared over time, obvious fakes but the .36 caliber pistol Ripley's has is the only one still around that has any degree of provenance. While it is a Henry Deringer-made pistol, that's it's only similarity to the "Booth" pistol found in the President's box. Different caliber, so it would not have been sold in a set with a .44 pistol, necessitating different accouterments (molds, etc).
There is nothing in the official records of a Deringer being found on Booth at Garrett's. There was at least one story of a Deringer pistol being exhibited around the country that supposedly came off Booth's body--a fake.
I've always found it difficult to believe an assassin would approach the President with simply one single-shot pistol. Booth obviously had access to more firepower. However, there is no evidence he had another pistol or that he was wearing the two Colt revolvers found on him at Garrett's. Percussion pistols could fail in a variety of ways and I would want a back-up but apparently that was what the knife was for. Why carry the knife in one hand if a second pistol was available?
I get that book finished answering all your weapon questions "some day."
RE: The Booth Deringer pistol - L Verge - 12-27-2016 05:57 PM
Joe Beckert, a retired State Trooper, has always contended that Booth could have concealed a second weapon in his knee-high boots. Makes sense to me.
Maybe it was still in his boot when he leaped and assisted in breaking the bone.....????? No, I never give up!