Lincoln Discussion Symposium
Kicking Off The Season! - Printable Version

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RE: Kicking Off The Season! - Eva Elisabeth - 11-26-2016 04:16 PM

(11-25-2016 03:23 PM)SSlater Wrote:  I admire your skill at creating a Christmas Tree, but for criminals, Why?
Agree on the artistic skills. And while I prefer to put up Lincoln - symbolically it's more appropriate to hang conspirators and criminals.

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - Gene C - 11-26-2016 05:12 PM

Here is an interesting web site selling Lincoln Christmas Art Work and more

http://www.abelincoln.com/christmas.htm

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - HerbS - 11-26-2016 06:07 PM

Thanks-Tom!

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - Eva Elisabeth - 11-27-2016 04:17 AM

(11-26-2016 05:12 PM)Gene C Wrote:  Here is an interesting web site selling Lincoln Christmas Art Work and more

http://www.abelincoln.com/christmas.htm
Very nice, Gene, thanks for posting!

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - loetar44 - 11-27-2016 08:26 AM

(11-25-2016 11:08 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  
(11-25-2016 10:49 AM)PaigeBooth Wrote:  With Christmas now just weeks away, I am ready to kick off the season with my annual "Conspirator Christmas Tree." I have "improved" it since last year with the addition of a few more conspirators. Also, please note the Union soldier at the bottom of the tree this year-- he is in search of Booth and his associates hiding in the tree!

Please enjoy! This is sure to put any Boothie or Lincolnite in the Christmas spirit!



Paige:

Please remove Spangler. He was not a conspirator. He was an innocent scene-shifter who was caught up in an 1865 whirlwind. His only "crime" was adulation of a half-made actor. He spent almost four years in hell and had his life shortened because of the whirlwind and because of vast carelessness. Including him now with known conspirators merely adds to the injustice.

John

Jacob Ritterspaugh claimed that Spangler hit him in the face in an attempt to stop him chasing after John Wilkes Booth. Spangler also said: "Don't say which way he went." It was one of the reasons that Spangler was arrested by the police and charged with being part of the plot to kill the president. John, what is troubling me is why do you deny Ritterspaugh's statement while you underline a doubtful declaration of a certain “Justice” (whoever it may be) that he saw Booth on April 13 in Baltimore? Spangler was not a co-conspirator, O'Laughlen was. Hmmm.....

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - RJNorton - 11-27-2016 08:49 AM

Mike Kauffman in American Brutus writes that Harry Hawk admitted in an interview that he actually said the words Rittersback (Ritterspaugh) attributed to Spangler. Hawk said that he was scared, dazed, and confused during the uproar and simply wanted to keep out of any trouble. Offhand I do not recall if John says anything about this in Decapitating the Union.

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - loetar44 - 11-27-2016 09:23 AM

(11-27-2016 08:49 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Mike Kauffman in American Brutus writes that Harry Hawk admitted in an interview that he actually said the words Rittersback (Ritterspaugh) attributed to Spangler. Hawk said that he was scared, dazed, and confused during the uproar and simply wanted to keep out of any trouble. Offhand I do not recall if John says anything about this in Decapitating the Union.

Roger, he does mention Ritterspaugh on page 220-224, but does not address that R. spoke the words to Hawk.

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - RJNorton - 11-27-2016 09:33 AM

Thank you, Kees.

Hawk's statement regarding who said what is on p. 390 of American Brutus.

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - Eva Elisabeth - 11-27-2016 10:25 AM

(11-27-2016 08:26 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  
(11-25-2016 11:08 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  
(11-25-2016 10:49 AM)PaigeBooth Wrote:  With Christmas now just weeks away, I am ready to kick off the season with my annual "Conspirator Christmas Tree." I have "improved" it since last year with the addition of a few more conspirators. Also, please note the Union soldier at the bottom of the tree this year-- he is in search of Booth and his associates hiding in the tree!

Please enjoy! This is sure to put any Boothie or Lincolnite in the Christmas spirit!



Paige:

Please remove Spangler. He was not a conspirator. He was an innocent scene-shifter who was caught up in an 1865 whirlwind. His only "crime" was adulation of a half-made actor. He spent almost four years in hell and had his life shortened because of the whirlwind and because of vast carelessness. Including him now with known conspirators merely adds to the injustice.

John

Jacob Ritterspaugh claimed that Spangler hit him in the face in an attempt to stop him chasing after John Wilkes Booth. Spangler also said: "Don't say which way he went." It was one of the reasons that Spangler was arrested by the police and charged with being part of the plot to kill the president. John, what is troubling me is why do you deny Ritterspaugh's statement while you underline a doubtful declaration of a certain “Justice” (whoever it may be) that he saw Booth on April 13 in Baltimore? Spangler was not a co-conspirator, O'Laughlen was. Hmmm.....
Good point as for O'Laughlen, Kees. However, I think Spangler wasn't a conspirator as not involved in planning. IMO he had no real overview of what was going on. I believe he re-acted, "kicked" from mere "reflex" out of the spinal marrow, hitting his general anti-Unionism (and Booth-sympathy), made him kick at the very moment like the leg when hit below patella. I think he sensed Booth would like to "assist" him that way but had no time for thinking or to capture what this scene and thus he was part of Other than Atzerodt or Mary Surratt who IMO had time to think, sleep over and prevent. I cannot estimate inasfar that goes for O'Laughlen.
PS: There's a German proverb that matches pretty well - almost literally: "mitgefangen - mitghangen", literally translated (but doesn't rhyme in such catching way) "caught together - hung together" ("hung", not "hanged"). It refers to (innocently) being with the wrong folk at the wrong time can be fatal, so better keep hands off those fellows at all. There's a lot of truth (and experience) in proverbs.

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - PaigeBooth - 11-27-2016 11:53 AM

(11-27-2016 08:26 AM)loetar44 Wrote:  
(11-25-2016 11:08 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  
(11-25-2016 10:49 AM)PaigeBooth Wrote:  With Christmas now just weeks away, I am ready to kick off the season with my annual "Conspirator Christmas Tree." I have "improved" it since last year with the addition of a few more conspirators. Also, please note the Union soldier at the bottom of the tree this year-- he is in search of Booth and his associates hiding in the tree!

Please enjoy! This is sure to put any Boothie or Lincolnite in the Christmas spirit!



Paige:

Please remove Spangler. He was not a conspirator. He was an innocent scene-shifter who was caught up in an 1865 whirlwind. His only "crime" was adulation of a half-made actor. He spent almost four years in hell and had his life shortened because of the whirlwind and because of vast carelessness. Including him now with known conspirators merely adds to the injustice.

John

Jacob Ritterspaugh claimed that Spangler hit him in the face in an attempt to stop him chasing after John Wilkes Booth. Spangler also said: "Don't say which way he went." It was one of the reasons that Spangler was arrested by the police and charged with being part of the plot to kill the president. John, what is troubling me is why do you deny Ritterspaugh's statement while you underline a doubtful declaration of a certain “Justice” (whoever it may be) that he saw Booth on April 13 in Baltimore? Spangler was not a co-conspirator, O'Laughlen was. Hmmm.....

You make some great points, Kees. During the trial, a witness, Mr. Carlin, was called to testify. He knew Jake Ritterspaugh well. Mr. Carlin said that he saw Ritterspaugh shortly after the assassination, and asked him where Spangler was. Ritterspaugh replied that the last he had seen Spangler was when Booth ran across the stage. Ritterspaugh told Mr. Carlin that Spangler had slapped him.
Ritterspaugh himself said that Spangler slapped him across the mouth and said, "Don't tell which way he went."
In addition, another witness, James Lame, said he knew Ritterspaugh. Mr. Lame also testified at the trial. Mr. Lame said he saw Ritterspaugh after the assassination and that Ritterspaugh told him that Ned Spangler was lucky he did not have anything in his hand when Spangler struck him in the mouth. Otherwise, Ritterspaugh would have been inclined to fight back.
Ritterspaugh also told Mr. Lame that he had said the night before the assassination that he knew John Wilkes Booth, and Spangler said to him, "Shut up, you know nothing about it."

Also, let me just add, that I am well aware of Hawk's statement. However, even Michael Kauffman says in American Brutus that Hawk's statement came many years after the assassination. In fact, Hawk made his statement 44 years after Lincoln's death.

RE: Kicking Off The Season! - PaigeBooth - 11-27-2016 01:17 PM

Eva, loved your German Proverb, "caught together--hung together" Thanks for sharing!