(10-13-2015 04:19 PM)Gene C Wrote:  Interesting theory Thomas. Could this could be a reason why no photo was taken of the body?

Unfortunately, none of the witnesses to Booth's capture, death or autopsy ever indicated the body received burns.

(10-13-2015 03:51 PM)Thomas Kearney Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 05:43 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 05:19 PM)Thomas Kearney Wrote:  

(10-11-2015 06:36 PM)Maykeith Wrote:  A question for the group. I just finished reading Lincoln's Assassins by Chamblee. He makes the point that Booth's secret fiancé Lucy Hale was not interrogated after the murder or called to testify at the trial. Is this true? If so, anyone know why? Was the relationship that secret? It seems like she could have unique insight.

Maybe it was too "political" to talk to her....soil the family name......

At the time of the assassination, Lucy was in a pickle. Her father had recently been promoted to ambassador of Spain and was to move at the end of the month. When her family learned word of the assassination, she couldn't believe that John Wilkes Booth was the assassin. When Senator Hale heard this, he attempted to whisk her away from her beloved Wilkes but failed. It is rumored that Lucy went to visit Booth's badly burnt body on the ironclad and had to be dragged out of the room after throwing herself on his body. According to the Richmond papers, Lucy was not called to testify because Stanton feared that her relationship with Booth would increase the reputations of the conspirators, and she had moved to Spain by the time the trial started.

Thomas - what is your source for that quote? I have never read about "Booth's badly burned body." Some ill-informed people have stated that Booth burned to death in the barn, but I have never seen reference to him being badly burned when dragged out alive from the barn.

Laurie,

Why are you bringing me down man? I told my mother my theory and she agreed. Ah but what did she agree on? Here is my theory:

According to the Confederate States Almanac, the evening of April 25th was pleasant weather, with sunset at 6:36 PM. But as for being inside the barn, the fire made it hundreds of degrees inside, so it was basically like being in an oven. So it is possible that Booth got at least first or second degree burns. His dentist and dermatologist were called on to the Montauk to make sure it was him, probably because of the potential burns. I am posting a link to the Almanac and an article about the different burn types on Healthline (try not to gag while reading the burn articles, this could be a breakthrough in the death of John Wilkes Booth).

https://ia600408.us.archive.org/8/items/confederatestate00ashm/confederatestate00ashm_bw.pdf

http://www.healthline.com/health/burns#Second-Degree4

http://www.healthline.com/health/burns#First-Degree3

(10-13-2015 05:06 PM)Thomas Kearney Wrote:  Like the Jeremiah Gurney picture, a picture was taken but Stanton ordered the negative plate destroyed.

(10-13-2015 05:06 PM)Thomas Kearney Wrote:  but the Booth picture has not been discovered to this day.

(10-14-2015 08:25 PM)Sally Wrote:  This is just my opinion, but who’s to say Lucy Hale was NOT questioned?

Stanton was so determined to crack the case, I can’t imagine he’d let her off without some sort of investigation, especially after Junius Booth spilled the beans to reporters in Cincinnati a few days after the assassination, telling them all about his brother's "engagement" to the younger daughter of Senator Hale. I don't think Lucy was hauled into jail and interrogated like so many others, but I believe she might have been questioned discreetly, in private, by one of Stanton’s men. Finding that she could add nothing to the investigation, they just kept her statement “off the record” and never included it in any evidence files. Also, Mr. Hale didn’t hurry Lucy off to Spain before anyone could talk to her. The family didn’t sail until June 21st, just as the Defense was giving their case for O'Laughlen and Arnold.

As to the story of the “veiled lady” aboard the ironclad who wept over Booth’s body, I’ve always felt that was just a bogus story, made up to sell more newspapers. Has anyone on the forum found any reliable evidence it really happened? And even if there was such a lady, I doubt it was Lucy. New Hampshire and Boston newspapers reported that John P. Hale made a speech at a memorial service held in Dover, NH on the day of President Lincoln’s funeral, April 19. I would assume if Hale was in New Hampshire, he had his wife and daughters with him there. Would he have allowed Lucy to travel back to the Washington area eight days later so she could view the remains of the President’s killer? Seems improbable to me. What’s more, Hale was not popular with most of the men in Lincoln’s cabinet, and his relationship with the Secretary of the Navy, Gideon Welles, was particularly rancorous. Those two kept up a public (and very childish) feud throughout the war. If somebody wanted permission to get on a heavily guarded government vessel, wouldn’t that have to be cleared through the Navy Department? Hale certainly couldn’t have gotten any favors from that quarter.

(10-15-2015 09:04 AM)L Verge Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 08:25 PM)Sally Wrote:  This is just my opinion, but who’s to say Lucy Hale was NOT questioned?

Stanton was so determined to crack the case, I can’t imagine he’d let her off without some sort of investigation, especially after Junius Booth spilled the beans to reporters in Cincinnati a few days after the assassination, telling them all about his brother's "engagement" to the younger daughter of Senator Hale. I don't think Lucy was hauled into jail and interrogated like so many others, but I believe she might have been questioned discreetly, in private, by one of Stanton’s men. Finding that she could add nothing to the investigation, they just kept her statement “off the record” and never included it in any evidence files. Also, Mr. Hale didn’t hurry Lucy off to Spain before anyone could talk to her. The family didn’t sail until June 21st, just as the Defense was giving their case for O'Laughlen and Arnold.

As to the story of the “veiled lady” aboard the ironclad who wept over Booth’s body, I’ve always felt that was just a bogus story, made up to sell more newspapers. Has anyone on the forum found any reliable evidence it really happened? And even if there was such a lady, I doubt it was Lucy. New Hampshire and Boston newspapers reported that John P. Hale made a speech at a memorial service held in Dover, NH on the day of President Lincoln’s funeral, April 19. I would assume if Hale was in New Hampshire, he had his wife and daughters with him there. Would he have allowed Lucy to travel back to the Washington area eight days later so she could view the remains of the President’s killer? Seems improbable to me. What’s more, Hale was not popular with most of the men in Lincoln’s cabinet, and his relationship with the Secretary of the Navy, Gideon Welles, was particularly rancorous. Those two kept up a public (and very childish) feud throughout the war. If somebody wanted permission to get on a heavily guarded government vessel, wouldn’t that have to be cleared through the Navy Department? Hale certainly couldn’t have gotten any favors from that quarter.

Great points, Sally. It sounds like you know quite a bit about the Hales and Lucy's ties to Booth.

Your last point about having permission to get on the Montauk is well-taken. Some time ago, John Elliott posted about the steps taken to get Alexander Gardner on board for photographs. If I had been Sen. & Mrs. Hale, I would have locked Lucy in her room and let her cry her heart out (or throw a screaming tantrum) before I would allow her anywhere near that body. Frankly, I would have already been disgusted with her if the stories are true that she "traveled" with Booth. Liberated daughters were not tolerated in the 1860s.

(10-15-2015 01:05 PM)Susan Higginbotham Wrote:  

(10-15-2015 09:04 AM)L Verge Wrote:  

(10-14-2015 08:25 PM)Sally Wrote:  This is just my opinion, but who’s to say Lucy Hale was NOT questioned?

Stanton was so determined to crack the case, I can’t imagine he’d let her off without some sort of investigation, especially after Junius Booth spilled the beans to reporters in Cincinnati a few days after the assassination, telling them all about his brother's "engagement" to the younger daughter of Senator Hale. I don't think Lucy was hauled into jail and interrogated like so many others, but I believe she might have been questioned discreetly, in private, by one of Stanton’s men. Finding that she could add nothing to the investigation, they just kept her statement “off the record” and never included it in any evidence files. Also, Mr. Hale didn’t hurry Lucy off to Spain before anyone could talk to her. The family didn’t sail until June 21st, just as the Defense was giving their case for O'Laughlen and Arnold.

As to the story of the “veiled lady” aboard the ironclad who wept over Booth’s body, I’ve always felt that was just a bogus story, made up to sell more newspapers. Has anyone on the forum found any reliable evidence it really happened? And even if there was such a lady, I doubt it was Lucy. New Hampshire and Boston newspapers reported that John P. Hale made a speech at a memorial service held in Dover, NH on the day of President Lincoln’s funeral, April 19. I would assume if Hale was in New Hampshire, he had his wife and daughters with him there. Would he have allowed Lucy to travel back to the Washington area eight days later so she could view the remains of the President’s killer? Seems improbable to me. What’s more, Hale was not popular with most of the men in Lincoln’s cabinet, and his relationship with the Secretary of the Navy, Gideon Welles, was particularly rancorous. Those two kept up a public (and very childish) feud throughout the war. If somebody wanted permission to get on a heavily guarded government vessel, wouldn’t that have to be cleared through the Navy Department? Hale certainly couldn’t have gotten any favors from that quarter.

Great points, Sally. It sounds like you know quite a bit about the Hales and Lucy's ties to Booth.

Your last point about having permission to get on the Montauk is well-taken. Some time ago, John Elliott posted about the steps taken to get Alexander Gardner on board for photographs. If I had been Sen. & Mrs. Hale, I would have locked Lucy in her room and let her cry her heart out (or throw a screaming tantrum) before I would allow her anywhere near that body. Frankly, I would have already been disgusted with her if the stories are true that she "traveled" with Booth. Liberated daughters were not tolerated in the 1860s.

Is there any solid evidence that she did travel with Booth? Nothing in Terry Alford's book that I recall seemed to support this, and nothing in the (admittedly little) I've read about her gives me the impression that she was unconventional enough to risk her reputation in this manner.

(10-15-2015 01:47 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I have often questioned this also, Susan - and never gotten a definitive answer. The gentlemen scholars always want to point to Booth registering "with lady" at hotels and just seem to assume that it was Lucy. Maybe I've missed something, but that would definitely have made Lucy a "loose woman." If word got around (and so far no evidence that it did), it would have cut her off completely from proper society and snubbed by eligible gentlemen.

(10-15-2015 09:04 AM)L Verge Wrote:  Great points, Sally. It sounds like you know quite a bit about the Hales and Lucy's ties to Booth.

Your last point about having permission to get on the Montauk is well-taken. Some time ago, John Elliott posted about the steps taken to get Alexander Gardner on board for photographs. If I had been Sen. & Mrs. Hale, I would have locked Lucy in her room and let her cry her heart out (or throw a screaming tantrum) before I would allow her anywhere near that body. Frankly, I would have already been disgusted with her if the stories are true that she "traveled" with Booth. Liberated daughters were not tolerated in the 1860s.