Band at the execution - Printable Version

Band at the execution - Printable Version

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RE: Band at the execution - Eva Elisabeth - 06-25-2014 12:26 AM

Just curious again - AFAIK not all states have the death penalty. In case of treason/conspiracy - would it make a difference in which state a crime (like murdering the president) was committed, or is death penalty for conspiracy nationwide "universal"?

RE: Band at the execution - BettyO - 06-25-2014 04:34 AM

As far as I know, Eva - such a crime would be considered today as a "Federal" Offense and would be under Federal jurisdiction; not State. Anyone such as law enforcement/lawyer like to chime in here? Joe?

RE: Band at the execution - NHjohn - 06-25-2014 07:56 AM

(06-24-2014 03:19 PM)L Verge Wrote: Col. Julian Raymond, who commanded Ft. Lesley J. McNair (previously the Arsenal in 1865) a century later, documented much of his historical research when he caught the bug of assassinitice. I'm having our librarian at Surratt House check our files to see if we have a copy. If not, I know someone who does.

Personally, I just have to think that some mention would have been made of a post or regimental band at some point with all of the fantastic researchers that have plumbed the depths over the past 100 years looking for every speck and tidbit in any way related to our addiction.

And I agree. Here's the thing. I'll use my first book as an example. I'm a retired police officer who has been playing in re-enactment Civil War brass bands since 1999. My wife and I moved to DC area in 2004 and while there, started researching regimental brass bands full-time, meaning, I research every, single, day. While in DC, I would also go the National Archives 2 days a week minimum to pull service and pension records. I started compiling info. on the existence of a regimental brass band (or non-existence) for each regiment, for each state of New England. Using round numbers, the six states combined, fielded approx. 160 regiments of infantry, cavalry, artillery, of which there were 60 regimental brass bands carried on the rosters. I documented the existence of approx. 120, plus some "probable" bands, mainly through the service and pension records of individual soldiers. Yes, with all the research folks have done thru the years on the trial and execution, somebody should have found evidence of a band, but were they looking? I just read last night in the Washington Evening Star, "four holes were dug and four coffins stacked up." I see three coffins in the photo. Everything I read says Gen. Hartranft was in-charge of the prison. Yes, by reason of his overall command, but I believe Lt. Col. Colby of the 19th VRC was the actual Washington Arsenal and prison commander. Nobody ever mentions him. There was a hospital at the prison, and almost all military hospitals had bands, comprised of VRC soldiers. Nobody mentions the hospital, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has researched/written about the VRC, and certainly nothing written about VRC bands. The Evening Star said that Gen. Hancock, "Middle Department" Commander (Washington, DC) had the "1st and 4th Hancock Regiments" at his disposal to help guard the perimeter. No such regiments. That's military and/or newspaper slang for the 1st and 4th Regiments Pennsylvania Veteran Volunteer Infantry assigned to Hancock's 1st Veteran Corps, Camp Stoneman, DC. So, I turned to the experts... you guys. The absence of any band mentioned, does not mean a band wasn't present playing right before the prisoners were brought out, or in the hours after the executions, as in the burials, and I understand, the absence of any band mentioned may also mean there was none. I'm assuming nothing... one more time. Thanks for checking with other folks.

RE: Band at the execution - L Verge - 06-25-2014 09:53 AM

I did correspond briefly with John Elliott on this matter the other day. John has probably done more in-depth research on everything that went on at the Arsenal and Penitentiary during this period. In fact, he has really looked for the tiny little, human interest tidbits that make life interesting. I have asked him to be prepared to do a talk at our 2016 Surratt conference on just such stuff. John has never run across any mention of a band, but we'll keep looking.

I also wonder if a drummer or band could have been sent over from the Marine Barracks, where the Marine Band was stationed.

RE: Band at the execution - J. Beckert - 06-25-2014 10:57 AM

(06-25-2014 12:26 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Just curious again - AFAIK not all states have the death penalty. In case of treason/conspiracy - would it make a difference in which state a crime (like murdering the president) was committed, or is death penalty for conspiracy nationwide "universal"?

It would make no difference, Eva. Each state has their own Criminal Laws and the Federal Gov't has theirs. Crimes against the State are different than crimes against the Gov't, with treason being one of them. There's no State Statute for Treason. Maybe think of the State and the Federal Gov't as two different entities. I've seen people that were unable to be found guilty under State laws be found guilty under Federal ones.

RE: Band at the execution - wpbinzel - 06-25-2014 10:59 AM

Eva –

In 1965, in the aftermath of the assassination of President Kennedy, an assault, kidnapping or assassination of the President (and later, most other federal officials were added to the list) was made a federal crime, meaning regardless of which state the assault occurred, the assailant would be charged with a federal crime and tried under federal law. The United States Code is the compilation of U.S. federal law. Pursuant to Sections 1751 and 1111 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code, first degree murder of the President is punishable by death or life imprisonment, even if the trial takes place in a federal court that is located in a state that has no death penalty.

I have pasted the pertinent sections of the U.S. Code, including the language for the punishment for murder (Section 1111) and manslaughter (Section 1112), below:

18 U.S. Code § 1751 - Presidential and Presidential staff assassination, kidnapping, and assault; penalties
(a) Whoever kills
(1) any individual who is the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President, or, if there is no Vice President, the officer next in the order of succession to the Office of the President of the United States, the Vice President-elect, or any person who is acting as President under the Constitution and laws of the United States, or
(2) any person appointed under section 105 (a)(2)(A) of title 3 employed in the Executive Office of the President or appointed under section 106 (a)(1)(A) of title 3 employed in the Office of the Vice President, shall be punished as provided by sections 1111 and 1112 of this title.
(b) Whoever kidnaps any individual designated in subsection (a) of this section shall be punished
(1) by imprisonment for any term of years or for life, or
(2) by death or imprisonment for any term of years or for life, if death results to such individual.
© Whoever attempts to kill or kidnap any individual designated in subsection (a) of this section shall be punished by imprisonment for any term of years or for life.
(d) If two or more persons conspire to kill or kidnap any individual designated in subsection (a) of this section and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be punished
(1) by imprisonment for any term of years or for life, or
(2) by death or imprisonment for any term of years or for life, if death results to such individual.
(e) Whoever assaults any person designated in subsection (a)(1) shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. Whoever assaults any person designated in subsection (a)(2) shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the assault involved the use of a dangerous weapon, or personal injury results, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(f) The terms “President-elect” and “Vice-President-elect” as used in this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2.
(g) The Attorney General of the United States, in his discretion is authorized to pay an amount not to exceed $100,000 for information and services concerning a violation of subsection (a)(1). Any officer or employee of the United States or of any State or local government who furnishes information or renders service in the performance of his official duties shall not be eligible for payment under this subsection.
(h) If Federal investigative or prosecutive jurisdiction is asserted for a violation of this section, such assertion shall suspend the exercise of jurisdiction by a State or local authority, under any applicable State or local law, until Federal action is terminated.
(i) Violations of this section shall be investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Assistance may be requested from any Federal, State, or local agency, including the Army, Navy, and Air Force, any statute, rule, or regulation to the contrary notwithstanding.
(j) In a prosecution for an offense under this section the Government need not prove that the defendant knew that the victim of the offense was an official protected by this section.
(k) There is extraterritorial jurisdiction over the conduct prohibited by this section.

18 U.S. Code § 1111 - Murder
(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.
Any other murder is murder in the second degree.
(b) Within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States,
Whoever is guilty of murder in the first degree shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for life;
Whoever is guilty of murder in the second degree, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

18 U.S. Code § 1112 - Manslaughter
(a) Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. It is of two kinds:
Voluntary—Upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion.
Involuntary—In the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony, or in the commission in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection, of a lawful act which might produce death.
(b) Within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States,
Whoever is guilty of voluntary manslaughter, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 15 years, or both;
Whoever is guilty of involuntary manslaughter, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

_______________________

Is that responsive to your inquiry, Eva?

RE: Band at the execution - NHjohn - 06-25-2014 10:59 AM

(06-25-2014 09:53 AM)L Verge Wrote: I did correspond briefly with John Elliott on this matter the other day. John has probably done more in-depth research on everything that went on at the Arsenal and Penitentiary during this period. In fact, he has really looked for the tiny little, human interest tidbits that make life interesting. I have asked him to be prepared to do a talk at our 2016 Surratt conference on just such stuff. John has never run across any mention of a band, but we'll keep looking.

I also wonder if a drummer or band could have been sent over from the Marine Barracks, where the Marine Band was stationed.

BettyO found one of the 10 drummers said to be there, was from the 29th Maine Infantry according to a 1908 newspaper article. No mention in the regimental history by John Mead Gould, Adjutant, or "Gould's Journals" that I can find, but the 29th Maine had been in DC from May 23, the Grand Review, to around June 1st. A drummer or drummers could have been left behind on detached service. But, no offense to any drummers, drummers in the Civil War were all over the place, brass bandsmen, not so much. Why they would keep a drummer from the 29th Maine behind after the regiment was sent to North Carolina on reconstruction duties doesn't make much sense, but the soldier in the article claims he was, and lots of soldiers in the Civil War were put "detached duty." If in fact, a drummer from a volunteer regt was there, then that tells me likely the drummers were all from volunteer regiments, or all from the 29th Maine. In addition, I don;t see any drummers in the few photos of the execution, as I don't see a band, but it seems common knowledge drummers were present. I also found last night that after the explosion at the Arsenal in in July, 1864, the Band of Finley Hospital "appeared on the grounds," for the funeral procession on July 20th, to lead the parade. Finley hospital was on 4th Street, Kendall Green, north of the city. Bandsmen in "hospital bands," were Veteran Reserve Corp soldiers primarily, and VRC soldiers' guarded Federal installations and served in hospitals. So the Arsenal had a history of calling in Veteran Reserve Corps bands for ceremonies, which makes sense since the commandant was Lt. Col. Colby of the 19th Veteran Reserve Corps.

RE: Band at the execution - Eva Elisabeth - 06-25-2014 06:45 PM

Many thanks for your comments, Betty, Joe and Bill - Bill that was most informative! If I read it correctly, murder of the president would apply to the same § (1111 - Murder) as murder of "John Q. Public" and there's always the option of punishment by death or by imprisonment for life, thus death penalty in no case obligatory?

Is imprisonment for life indeed for the rest of the delinquent's life? (In Germany, though called "for life", the convicted will, depending on the deed and prognosis, be released on parole after 15-25 years or committed to a high secure psychiatric hospital - and this could be for life.)

(I just find this interesting to learn. Thanks.)

RE: Band at the execution - John E. - 06-25-2014 09:23 PM

(06-25-2014 09:53 AM)L Verge Wrote: John has never run across any mention of a band, but we'll keep looking.
I also wonder if a drummer or band could have been sent over from the Marine Barracks, where the Marine Band was stationed.

Just to piggy back on what Laurie said, I don't recall ever reading an execution account that mentioned drummers or a drum cadence. Back in 2012, Betty was kind enough to share the article she found regarding the obituary of the drummer who supposedly was present at the execution. As mentioned, there were supposed to have been 10 drummers. Unfortunately, none of the photographs Gardner took that day show drummers. That doesn't mean they weren't there, it just means they weren't photographed.

There are a couple of things that are a bit dubious to me. One, the story about the drummer didn't come from the drummer himself. It came from his obituary.

Second, many of the writers who were present that day didn't mention the drummer's cadence. They mention all sorts of stuff and really described the scene in great detail. You would think that they would have latched on to the drum cadence because it would have added to the dramatic scene.

RE: Band at the execution - BettyO - 06-26-2014 04:50 AM

Quote:There are a couple of things that are a bit dubious to me. One, the story about the drummer didn't come from the drummer himself. It came from his obituary.

Second, many of the writers who were present that day didn't mention the drummer's cadence. They mention all sorts of stuff and really described the scene in great detail. You would think that they would have latched on to the drum cadence because it would have added to the dramatic scene.

John -

You bring some great insight (as always!) You are correct - I, too am surprised that someone with a flair for the dramatic, such as GATH, didn't mention any "music" or drummer's cadence in any of his writings - which does bring up a very valid point.

Could be just another instance of someone who wanted to be someone and claimed that they "were there!"

Thanks! Always a delight to hear from you!

RE: Band at the execution - wpbinzel - 06-26-2014 08:57 AM

(06-25-2014 06:45 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Many thanks for your comments, Betty, Joe and Bill - Bill that was most informative! If I read it correctly, murder of the president would apply to the same § (1111 - Murder) as murder of "John Q. Public" and there's always the option of punishment by death or by imprisonment for life, thus death penalty in no case obligatory?

Is imprisonment for life indeed for the rest of the delinquent's life? (In Germany, though called "for life", the convicted will, depending on the deed and prognosis, be released on parole after 15-25 years or committed to a high secure psychiatric hospital - and this could be for life.)

(I just find this interesting to learn. Thanks.)

Absent a federal statute making the assault a federal crime, then the trial would be in a state or local court and conducted under state or local law (which may exclude the death penalty). Under no federal statute (nor, to the best of my knowledge, under any state law) is the death penalty mandatory.

There are laws that allow for a sentence of "life in prison without the possibility of parole," and most states that have abolished the death penalty have such statutes. Otherwise, parole at the federal or state level is generally an option. (And it is an option under 18 U.S.C. 1111.)

Maybe I ought to be charging law school tuition..... http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium/images/smilies/shy.gif

I can't imagine what you will be doing in a couple of hours at 12:00 noon EDT today. Enjoy the match!

RE: Band at the execution - Eva Elisabeth - 06-26-2014 09:28 AM

Thanks for your patience and tutoring, Bill! (And yes - I hope both will advance, and for a match to dance samba afterwards! )

RE: Band at the execution - Linda Anderson - 06-26-2014 09:14 PM

I found a reference to not only the beat of drums but also to the "wail of the trumpet." It's from The Assassination of Abraham Lincoln and Its Expiation by David Miller DeWitt which is available on Google Books.

DeWitt does not give a source for his observation. Does anyone know if he was at the executions? Also, did Hartranft wave his sword? According to American Brutus, Captain Rath clapped his hands three times for the signal.

"Hartranft waves his sword, the two drops fall and the four figures shoot down and then sway to and fro between heaven and earth. The bodies are cut down; a hurried post-mortem examination is made; and, then, enclosed in gun boxes for coffins, they are buried in a row. The soldiery depart to the wail of trumpet and beat of drum. Silence descends on the old arsenal, broken only by the tramp of the sentinel set to guard the unhallowed dead."

RE: Band at the execution - BettyO - 06-26-2014 09:43 PM

If Hartranft had "waved a sword", he'd have killed half dozen folk on that scaffold! They were apparently packed like sardines up there if you look at the photos. It's a good thing that the scaffold was sturdy. I've often wondered what would have happened if the gallows flooring had collapsed under the weight! No OSHA standards back then.....

I've always heard that Rath clapped his hands -

I read deWitt's book years upon years ago, and never paid much attention to what he said about the execution's "background" - foolish me! I'll have to check it again -

Thanks, Linda! Good work!

RE: Band at the execution - Linda Anderson - 06-26-2014 09:49 PM

(06-26-2014 09:43 PM)BettyO Wrote: If Hartranft had "waved a sword", he'd have killed half dozen folk on that scaffold! They were apparently packed like sardines up there if you look at the photos. It's a good thing that the scaffold was sturdy. I've often wondered what would have happened if the gallows flooring had collapsed under the weight! No OSHA standards back then.....

I've always heard that Rath clapped his hands -

I read deWitt's book years upon years ago, and never paid much attention to what he said about the execution's "background" - foolish me! I'll have to check it again -

Thanks, Linda! Good work!

I better reread this thread again. I was thinking Hartranft was on the ground. Maybe DeWitt meant Rath waved his sword...