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+--- Thread: Atlantic article on Lincoln's survival (/thread-1345.html)
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RE: Atlantic article on Lincoln's survival - L Verge - 12-03-2013 06:58 PM
I know that Dr. John K. Lattimer had nothing good to say about Dr. Scalea's theory, and as a battlefield doctor during WWII, he was said to have a great deal of experience with gunshot wounds to the head. I also spoke with a Vietnam medic years ago who had attended one of Dr. Scalea's lectures. His description of the theory was "bull -****," and that's a quote.
I have also heard Blaine speak before a conference audience on head wounds, and knowing his expertise in the field of Lincoln assassination studies and his many years as an ER doctor (some of them in the Chicago hospitals), I accept his explanation of this. In the whole specter of things, it is just another "what if " speculation. My eighth grade students used to love to try to waste class time with, "but, what if..." questions. My standard answer became, "What if the cow jumped over the moon? When that happens, we will discuss the ramifications."
RE: Atlantic article on Lincoln's survival - RJNorton - 12-04-2013 04:55 AM
(12-03-2013 02:06 PM)Houmes Wrote: The path of the bullet may actually have been more midline, than on either side.
From what I have read 9 men were present for the autopsy. These were: Surgeon General Dr. Joseph K. Barnes, Lincoln family physician, Dr. Robert King Stone, Dr. Charles Sabin Taft, Assistant Surgeon General Dr. Charles H. Crane, Army Assistant Surgeon William Morrow Notson, General Rucker of the Army's Quartermaster Department (whose men had escorted the hearse back to the White House), Lincoln's friend, Orville H. Browning, Army Assistant Surgeon Joseph Janvier Woodward, and Army Assistant Surgeon Edward Curtis.
The formal report was written by Dr. Woodward, but Dr. Curtis wrote his mother as follows:
"Dr. Woodward and I proceeded to open the head and remove the brain down to the track of the ball. The latter had entered a little to the left of the median line at the back of the head, had passed almost directly forwards through the center of the brain and lodged. Not finding it readily, we proceeded to remove the entire brain, when, as I was lifting the latter from the cavity of the skull, suddenly the bullet dropped out through my fingers and fell, breaking the solemn silence of the room with its clatter, into an empty basin that was standing beneath."
Since the path of the ball seems key to prognosis, I am wondering what Dr. Curtis is saying here. He seems to be saying that the ball was lodged in the center of the brain, and not in either the left or right side.
Dr. Woodward wrote, "The ball entered through the occipital bone about one inch to the left of the median line and just above the left lateral sinus, which it opened. It then penetrated the dura matter, passed through the left posterior lobe of the cerebrum, entered the left lateral ventricle and lodged in the white matter of the cerebrum just above the anterior portion of the left corpus striatum, where it was found."
Are the two doctors saying the same thing or is Dr. Curtis implying the bullet ended up to the right of where Dr. Woodward said it ended up? For us laymen, does it make a big difference in possible outcome?
RE: Atlantic article on Lincoln's survival - Houmes - 12-04-2013 09:04 AM
(12-04-2013 04:55 AM)RJNorton Wrote:(12-03-2013 02:06 PM)Houmes Wrote: The path of the bullet may actually have been more midline, than on either side.
From what I have read 9 men were present for the autopsy. These were: Surgeon General Dr. Joseph K. Barnes, Lincoln family physician, Dr. Robert King Stone, Dr. Charles Sabin Taft, Assistant Surgeon General Dr. Charles H. Crane, Army Assistant Surgeon William Morrow Notson, General Rucker of the Army's Quartermaster Department (whose men had escorted the hearse back to the White House), Lincoln's friend, Orville H. Browning, Army Assistant Surgeon Joseph Janvier Woodward, and Army Assistant Surgeon Edward Curtis.
The formal report was written by Dr. Woodward, but Dr. Curtis wrote his mother as follows:
"Dr. Woodward and I proceeded to open the head and remove the brain down to the track of the ball. The latter had entered a little to the left of the median line at the back of the head, had passed almost directly forwards through the center of the brain and lodged. Not finding it readily, we proceeded to remove the entire brain, when, as I was lifting the latter from the cavity of the skull, suddenly the bullet dropped out through my fingers and fell, breaking the solemn silence of the room with its clatter, into an empty basin that was standing beneath."
Since the path of the ball seems key to prognosis, I am wondering what Dr. Curtis is saying here. He seems to be saying that the ball was lodged in the center of the brain, and not in either the left or right side.
Dr. Woodward wrote, "The ball entered through the occipital bone about one inch to the left of the median line and just above the left lateral sinus, which it opened. It then penetrated the dura matter, passed through the left posterior lobe of the cerebrum, entered the left lateral ventricle and lodged in the white matter of the cerebrum just above the anterior portion of the left corpus striatum, where it was found."
Are the two doctors saying the same thing or is Dr. Curtis implying the bullet ended up to the right of where Dr. Woodward said it ended up? For us laymen, does it make a big difference in possible outcome?
They're saying essentially the same thing. And it wouldn't have made a difference.
RE: Atlantic article on Lincoln's survival - J. Beckert - 12-04-2013 09:34 AM
It sure sounds like a stretch to me to say that wound was survivable. That was a devasting wound by a large caliber delivered at point blank range. I don't remember who the Doctor was, but I remember reading when the Nelaton probe was inserted, something stopped it. The Dr. pushed and after some resistance, moved the probe in further. That couldn't have been good, either. It must have been a skull fragment and doing that must have damaged more of his brain.
I know some of that relates to the treatment rendered in 1865, but it makes me wonder.