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+--- Thread: Throwing more Mudd in the game (/thread-1182.html)
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - RJNorton - 09-25-2013 04:03 AM
(09-24-2013 06:38 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Wasn't it said he had treated his slaves harshly and shot one in the leg?
Eva, yes. At the conspiracy trial there was testimony that this happened to Elzee Eglen. (Some sources I have seen add a "t" to the end of the name making it Eglent.)
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Eva Elisabeth - 09-25-2013 07:45 AM
"Nice" guy!
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - bob_summers - 09-25-2013 07:58 AM
(09-23-2013 12:41 PM)RJNorton Wrote: I am trusting George Atzerodt's word with this post.
Atzerodt said, "I am certain Dr. Mudd knew all about it, as Booth sent (as he told me) liquors & provisions for the trip with the President to Richmond, about two weeks before the murder to Dr. Mudd's."
I am assuming this to mean a stop was planned at Mudd's after Lincoln was kidnapped.
If they had seemingly planned to stop at Mudd's after kidnapping Lincoln why wouldn't they also intend to stop there after killing him?
Do we know if Booth and Herold left Mudd's with any "extra stuff" they didn't have when they arrived?
P.S. Laurie, Bob Summers is away from his computer, but on his website there is an interview with Sarah Frances Mudd in which she says:
"There was no one in our home that night except the Doctor, myself, the children and the children’s nurse, a white girl named Nancy Tilly. The children and the nurse were not awakened by the arrival of these visitors."
http://www.samuelmudd.com/2111909-mrs-mudds-last-interview.html
Roger: I have always had a problem with Atzerodt's statement, which was a summary of a two hour grilling. The parenthetical "(as he told me)" appears to be McPhail's way of emphasizing that Atzerodt's liquor and provisions statement was not first-hand information.
It has never made sense to me that Booth would have sent provisions for a trip to Richmond two weeks before the assassination. Booth read the Washington papers. He knew that Richmond was surrounded and about to fall, which happened on April 3rd.
You asked if Booth and Herold left Dr. Mudd's with any "extra stuff." I think you refer to the "liquor and provisions." If liquor and provisions were sent to Dr. Mudd, he clearly didn't give them to Booth, since shortly after Booth left Dr. Mudd's he asked Swan for liquor and food.
General Ewing brought Atzerodt's statement to President Johnson's attention in his post-trial appeal letter, as evidence of Dr. Mudd's innocence. I have elaborated on all this at:
http://www.samuelmudd.com/511865-atzerodts-statement.html
Regarding Nancy Tilly, the nanny or nurse for the Mudd children, I remember trying to find out more about her several years ago when I first read Mrs. Mudd's interview, but there is no Nancy Tilly in Maryland in any of the census or other historical records I looked at. Mrs. Mudd's interview was in 1909, almost a half century after the assassination, so her accurate memory of the young woman's name may have been faulty.
- Bob
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Rhatkinson - 09-25-2013 08:02 AM
(09-25-2013 12:11 AM)SSlater Wrote: I have no problem with the lies that are attributed to Dr. Mudd. We all would have done the same, had we been in his predicament. There is no question that Mudd was a sympathizer, but not an active "agent". Can anyone provide another incident where Mudd was treasonous? I do not believe that he knew Booth - at 4 AM - months after he was introduced or remembered the "land purchase" visit. I have met people at the Surratt House, and had long talks with them - but I would not recognize them if they came to my door at 4 AM. So, that is not a lie.
How did Mudd feel about the assassination? Did he consider it a crime? or was it an act of war? If the South did benefit from the assassination, and win the war, then the South may have hanged Mudd for turning Booth in. Mudd was in a No-Win situation, so he kept quiet, until....... Thus, his action, to help one of "his" soldiers, is understandable.
He did not invite Booth to Stop-by. He got trapped.
I don't think your analogy is the same. Running into a stranger once at the Surratt House is not the same as having met a famous actor three times (at least), having that actor stay at your home overnight on more than one occasion, taking the actor around town to introduce him to other contacts, and traveling to D.C. to meet with him and introduce him to John Surratt.
Plus, it is not as though Mudd only had a fleeting glance at Booth at 4 am that night. Rather, he was taken inside the house and thoroughly examined by the doctor. Not to mention Booth was at the Mudd home practically the entire next day. While I don't disagree with you on Mudd being forced to lie to save his neck, it is inconceivable to me that he did not recognize Mudd that night. (Not to mention that Mudd himself admitted to Samuel Cox, Jr. that he knew who Booth was that night.)
The only debate in my view is whether Booth told Mudd about the assassination on the night of the 14th (technically the early morning of the 15th I realize.) Perhaps he did not, but I find this very unlikely seeing that Booth told Lloyd (a stranger) about killing Lincoln. I could see a scenario where, based on Lloyd's negative reaction to the news, Booth decided to keep his mouth shut to future people they encountered during their escape.
Heath
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - wsanto - 09-25-2013 08:49 AM
I read Ewing's defense of Mudd last night. He claims Mudd only met Booth once in late November when Booth was a guest of Dr. Queen. That was when Booth met Mudd in church, went to Mudd's house to inquire about purchasing his farm, and when Mudd took Booth to Gardiner's to buy the one eyed horse.
He denies Booth ever spent the night at Mudd's house or that Mudd had any contact with Booth on Booth's subsequent trip to the area. He also denies that Mudd introduced Booth to Surratt in Washington as per Weichman's testimony.
He also claims Booth was unrecognizable to Mudd because he was wearing a fake beard and a scarf to conceal his identity. Also he claims Booth did not talk to Mudd during that visit and that Herold was the spokesperson for Booth.
If I was introduced to Johnny Depp and later that day Johnny came to my house to see if he could buy my house and my car from me and then I drove Johnny to a used car dealer to but a used car, i would probably remember him and this encounter quite vividly. If Johnny then came to my house at 4:00AM a few months later for some urgent medical care wearing a fake beard, I would most definitely still recognize him. Then if I learned that Johnny Depp assassinated the President later that afternoon while he was still convalescing at my house I would turn him into authorities immediately and ride with them as fast as I could back to my house to make sure my family was safe unless, of course, I was sympathetic to Johnny and wanted to help further his escape.
As far as the disguise; we are to believe that Booth fixed the beard to his face in the dead of night on his horse with a broken swollen leg and transformed his appearance so well that he was unrecognizable to a smart guy like Mudd. There are no reports that Booth was wearing a fake beard at the Navy Yard bridge or at Surratt's Tavern. Unlikely. Mudd would not have been fooled by this. It is more likely he recognized Booth, learned of the assassination, helped Booth create an alibi, and helped Booth on toward the home of Samuel Cox before reporting "strangers" at his house to the authorities 36-48 hours later. Of course, we know that he then lied to these authorities when they came to investigate his claim.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-25-2013 08:56 AM
Thanks for responding to these posts, Bob. Your website is so great, and I learn something new every time I go on it - such as the mention of Nancy Tilly, which Roger found. Dr. and Mrs. Mudd seem to have been compassionate people who took in orphans or children needing proper care (I can't remember the name of the one young Irish (?) youth). Could Nancy have been someone like that? It has no real bearing on the assassination, just curiosity on my part.
As for the provisions, if they had been sent to the Mudds ahead of time, we can't be sure that Atzerodt pinpointed the weeks ahead (two) accurately. It could have been 3-4 weeks ahead. If we assume liquor and provisions, they would likely have been sent via the stagecoach in a secure box. The provisions would likely have been non-perishables like crackers or country ham that would be transported in a vehicle. When Booth and Herold did finally leave Mudd's, they had no room on horseback for large items. If those provisions were indeed at the doctor's house, I would think they were left behind by the fugitives - who were now depending on the generosity of others on the underground to whom they expected to be passed.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Gene C - 09-25-2013 08:57 AM
If I met a famous actor, and he stayed at my house over night, and he bought a horse from me, I'd remember what he looked like a few months later.
We also have Wiechmann's testimony that they also met in DC.
Fido says he would have barked
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - bob_summers - 09-25-2013 09:29 AM
(09-25-2013 08:56 AM)L Verge Wrote: Thanks for responding to these posts, Bob. Your website is so great, and I learn something new every time I go on it - such as the mention of Nancy Tilly, which Roger found. Dr. and Mrs. Mudd seem to have been compassionate people who took in orphans or children needing proper care (I can't remember the name of the one young Irish (?) youth). Could Nancy have been someone like that? It has no real bearing on the assassination, just curiosity on my part.
As for the provisions, if they had been sent to the Mudds ahead of time, we can't be sure that Atzerodt pinpointed the weeks ahead (two) accurately. It could have been 3-4 weeks ahead. If we assume liquor and provisions, they would likely have been sent via the stagecoach in a secure box. The provisions would likely have been non-perishables like crackers or country ham that would be transported in a vehicle. When Booth and Herold did finally leave Mudd's, they had no room on horseback for large items. If those provisions were indeed at the doctor's house, I would think they were left behind by the fugitives - who were now depending on the generosity of others on the underground to whom they expected to be passed.
Laurie, I think the young boy you are thinking of is John Burke.
At the end of the Civil War, the New York Foundling Asylum, run by the Catholic Sisters of Charity, out-placed many children abandoned as a result of the war to families in Maryland and other states. In 1878, Dr. & Mrs. Mudd took one of these children, John Burke, who was one of 300 children sent to Maryland families.
The New York Foundling Asylum is now called the New York Foundling Hospital. I wrote to them asking for information about John Burke, but ran into the privacy wall. I also wrote to the Orphan Train folks, but they had no info.
Since the placement of these children was done through local Catholic churches, I also wrote to the pastor at St. Peter's Church near the Mudd farm and the pastor at St. Mary's in Bryantown asking if they had any record of these placements. They didn't.
The source for this information is Dr. Richard Mudd's genealogy of the Mudd family, and a 4-15-1942 letter from Genevieve Mudd Gardiner to Dr. Richard Mudd, on file with Dr. Mudd's genealogy papers at the Maryland State Archives in Annapolis.
- Bob
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-25-2013 09:36 AM
Ewing also skipped the second trip where Mudd accompanied him to Bryantown Tavern and introduced Booth to Thomas Harbin. Mr. Trotter, the blacksmith & farrier in Bryantown, attested to seeing the doctor and Booth there while he was shoeing Booth's horse.
BTW: Mr. Hall once tried tracking down a rumor that, on that trip, Booth rode the one-eyed horse back to the livery stable at T.B. and took the stagecoach the rest of the way into the city. I don't know what the outcome of his research on that was. The livery stable was right across the New Cut Road from the T.B. "Hotel" run by John Chandler Thompson, whom I have always suspected as being the underground operative in the village. It was with Thompson that Herold spent the night of March 17, 1865, after the aborted kidnapping.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - J. Beckert - 09-25-2013 10:06 AM
(09-25-2013 09:36 AM)L Verge Wrote: BTW: Mr. Hall once tried tracking down a rumor that, on that trip, Booth rode the one-eyed horse back to the livery stable at T.B. and took the stagecoach the rest of the way into the city. I don't know what the outcome of his research on that was.
Was that the stagecoach ride when Booth left his pistol on the coach and wrote someone promising $25 if he found and returned it?
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-25-2013 12:28 PM
I am not really sure, Joe, but I think that it was. I'm trying to remember the stage driver's name so that I can search some indices.
There is also a reference some place about Booth telling people that he was still tired from his horse ride back to D.C. and had gotten lost and had gone miles off track. That might lend credence to the thought that he found his way finally to T.B. and decided to board the horse and take the more comfortable stagecoach the rest of the way into the city.
And that statement just put another question in my mind (stop groaning!): Ignoring the fact that Booth had a broken leg, how uncomfortable would his backside and thighs be after riding a horse at top speed for thirty miles with only brief stops?
Finally remembered the name of the man to whom Booth wrote to request help in retrieving a weapon and was able to find great details in Ed Steers's work, Blood on the Moon (an excellent source, easy to read, concise, and very good for finding reference points). The man was Dominic Burch, who managed the Bryantown Tavern and had housed Booth on his first visit to the area on November 11. Booth wrote to Burch on November 14, 1864, about the missing gun.
That would make it on Booth's first visit, not the second one to which I was referring. My bad.
I should also apologize for a typo that I made in one of my first posts on this thread. Dr. and Mrs. Mudd were married in 1857, not in 1859.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Gene C - 09-25-2013 01:32 PM
(09-25-2013 12:28 PM)L Verge Wrote: There is also a reference some place about Booth telling people that he was still tired from his horse ride back to D.C. and had gotten lost and had gone miles off track. That might lend credence to the thought that he found his way finally to T.B. and decided to board the horse and take the more comfortable stagecoach the rest of the way into the city.
And that statement just put another question in my mind (stop groaning!): Ignoring the fact that Booth had a broken leg, how uncomfortable would his backside and thighs be after riding a horse at top speed for thirty miles with only brief stops?
Very, and if he tries to shift his weight off the broken leg to compensate for the pain, his back is going to start hurting too! I don't think the pain in his leg is going to allow him to go running the horse at top speed. And it's not safe to go running in the dark, you trip and fall down. I'm not sure, based also on your earlier comment above, that Booth was as good of a horseman as some of you think. He doesn't seem to have done much distance riding.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - L Verge - 09-25-2013 04:05 PM
Thanks, Gene, because that type of an answer is what I'm hoping for in order to bolster my claim that Booth knew he needed to get off that horse and rest somewhere between D.C. and the Potomac River.
Now, if Betty or Rick or Jenny just don't come back disagreeing with us.....
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - Gene C - 09-25-2013 04:33 PM
Here's something else to think about...if a horse gets tired, or doesn't care for having someone on its back, it will go under tree branches in an effort to knock the rider off.
RE: Throwing more Mudd in the game - BettyO - 09-25-2013 05:01 PM
The 19th Century riding "seat" was quite different than the seat rode today. One rode with longer stirrups and with emphasis on balance by utilizing the lower legs and feet. With his feet pressed firmly in the stirrups, JWB would be in a great deal of pain, probably because of simply attempting to stay on his horse.