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+--- Thread: Who is this person? (/thread-240.html)
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RE: Who is this person? - Anita - 07-16-2021 01:17 PM
Read here to see the answer of the Welsh connection to the image appearing in Utica, NY.
"The Welsh as a people must understand the issues of the Campaign before they can freely and conscientiously vote." --David C. Davies, Utica, N.Y., 1860.
A Welshman's Service to the Good Cause
Welsh voters for the most part went over to the new Republican Party and voted overwhelmingly for its 1860 presidential candidate Abraham Lincoln. Several items in the Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress illustrate the very personal way the Welsh of New York State supported Lincoln, before and after his election.
In 1860 David C. Davies, a book and job printer at 131 Genesee Street, Utica, N.Y., sent the letter below to then Republican presidential candidate Abraham Lincoln. That year Davies had published 50,000 copies of a Welsh-language biography and speech of Lincoln for distribution among Welsh-Americans.
Utica, Aug. 14/60
Hon. Abraham Lincoln--
Dear Sir,--
I hope you will please to pardon me for intruding on your patience thus knowing well that I am one among thousands, nay, millions that pays homage to our next President. Enclosed you will find a copy of his Life and Speach (the one delivered at N.Y.)--in the Welsh Language. My motive in writing to you is to trouble you for the name of the Chairman of the State Rep. Com. I understand there are many Welsh people in the State of Illinois. The Welsh as a people must understand the issues of the Campaign before they can freely and conscientiously vote. I have issued 50,000 copies, and hope they will be of great service to the good cause. Hoping you will excuse my boldness,
I ___,
Yours obediently,
D. C. Davies
Title Page from Davies' Welsh-language biography of Lincoln published in Utica, N.Y. in 1860.
David C. Davis [sic] to Abraham Lincoln, August 14, 1860 (Sends campaign biography in Welsh) The Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress Series 1. General Correspondence. 1833-1916.
The original letter and complete biography may be viewed online at Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress.
You can see the image here in image 5.
https://www.loc.gov/collections/abraham-lincoln-papers/?fa=segmentof:mal.0352300/&q=david+C+Davis&st=gallery
RE: Who is this person? - Anita - 07-16-2021 03:20 PM
Michael, thanks for this challenging trivia question, especially the last clue. Such a fun way to learn new material.
My grandfather was Welsh. His last name is Roberts. His ancestors settled in a place called Roberts Cove, Virginia. He ended up in Georgia working for the railroad.
Hope you had a good sleep!
RE: Who is this person? - Eva Elisabeth - 07-16-2021 05:53 PM
Looks a bit like a copy of this earlier image:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Abraham_Lincoln_from_a_portrait_taken_from_life_by_Charles_A._Barry,_Springfield,_Illinois,_June_1860_-_on_stone_by_J.E._Baker_;_J.H._Bufford%27s_Lith._313_Washington_St._Boston._LCCN2006680102.jpg
[attachment=3384]
(Ops, this is the very image - and your question was where it first appeared, not when/where it was created...)
RE: Who is this person? - AussieMick - 07-16-2021 05:54 PM
Hi Anita, yes had a good sleep thanks.
Well done.
And thanks for gathering all that background to the answer. ... I kept getting lost and losing the image of the pamphlet.
Its not always easy to get the best link .... Eva, yes . Looks very much like it.
RE: Who is this person? - AussieMick - 07-16-2021 10:42 PM
Reading David Davies letter you can almost hear his accent in "I hope you will please to pardon me for intruding on your patience thus"
For those that enjoy the Welsh language and anybody that likes Ioan Gruffudd ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-1SPdgcgeA
RE: Who is this person? - RJNorton - 03-08-2023 05:04 AM
No googling please.
Who is this lady?
![[Image: thisladyhasaname.jpg]](http://rogerjnorton.com/thisladyhasaname.jpg)
RE: Who is this person? - Steve - 03-08-2023 09:13 AM
I recognized that face right away. It's Fanny McCullough, who's family was close to Lincoln. Lincoln stayed with the McCullough family in Bloomington when he was riding the circuit as a lawyer. Lincoln wrote a heartfelt condolence letter to her in 1862, after her father, Lt. Col William McCullough had been killed in battle. It was a precursor to the later more famous condolence letter to Mrs Lydia Bixby.
RE: Who is this person? - RJNorton - 03-08-2023 09:42 AM
Excellent, Steve. It is Fanny McCullough.
Here is the letter Steve mentioned:
Executive Mansion
Washington, December 23, 1862.
Dear Fanny
It is with deep grief that I learn of the death of your kind and brave Father; and, especially, that it is affecting your young heart beyond what is common in such cases. In this sad world of ours, sorrow comes to all; and, to the young, it comes with bitterest agony, because it takes them unawares. The older have learned to ever expect it. I am anxious to afford some alleviation of your present distress. Perfect relief is not possible, except with time. You can not now realize that you will ever feel better. Is not this so? And yet it is a mistake. You are sure to be happy again. To know this, which is certainly true, will make you some less miserable now. I have had experience enough to know what I say; and you need only to believe it, to feel better at once. The memory of your dear Father, instead of an agony, will yet be a sad sweet feeling in your heart, of a purer and holier sort than you have known before.
Please present my kind regards to your afflicted mother.
Your sincere friend
A. Lincoln
RE: Who is this person? - David Lockmiller - 03-08-2023 02:58 PM
(03-08-2023 09:13 AM)Steve Wrote: I recognized that face right away. It's Fanny McCullough, who's family was close to Lincoln. Lincoln stayed with the McCullough family in Bloomington when he was riding the circuit as a lawyer. Lincoln wrote a heartfelt condolence letter to her in 1862, after her father, Lt. Col William McCullough had been killed in battle. It was a precursor to the later more famous condolence letter to Mrs Lydia Bixby.
It should be noted:
"The Bixby letter is beautiful indeed, but it was written by John Hay, not Lincoln."
Abraham Lincoln: A Life, Volume Two, page 737, by Professor Burlingame.
RE: Who is this person? - RJNorton - 03-08-2023 06:20 PM
On the other hand, Ed Steers argues that Lincoln was the author in Lincoln Legends: Myths, Hoaxes, and Confabulations Associated with Our Greatest President.
There is a thread on this topic here.
RE: Who is this person? - Steve - 03-09-2023 03:44 AM
I've researched the Bixby letter and the historical background behind its composure alot and, honestly, I just don't think there's enough evidence to definitively point to Lincoln or Hay as the author. Or even enough evidence to venture an opinion on whether one or the other man was more likely the author.
Anyway, since we're talking about authorship, let's read something Fanny McCullough wrote herself. It's the May 15, 1861 speech she gave to Illinois troops, representing the Ladies' Committee, during a flag presentation ceremony. Apparently, this is one of the few bits of Fanny's own words to survive.
No festive occasion nor holiday ceremony has gathered us here to-day; but at the beat of the drum we meet to respond to our country’s call. You, sons of Illinois, worthy children of a noble mother, are preparing to march where duty points. We, mothers, daughters and sisters, come to cheer you on in the noble work you have undertaken.
An era has arrived in the history of our country which has been unexpected. But a few months ago our country, united, was prosperous and happy. To-day, dissevered, it only looks to the sword as the bloody mediator between her friends and her foes. As the true friends of our glorious Union, go forth to give battle to its enemies. That step ranks you with the heroes of the past. As an organized band of patriot soldiery, go forth from your peaceful homes, to the glory field. Take with you this banner, the Star-Spangled Banner, the pride of your country’s honor, a priceless gift which the mothers and daughters of McLean place in your keeping. Its majestic stripes are the souvenirs of Revolutionary days, the thirteen original States, - while the glittering stars so brightly shine ever to remind us of our unbounded increase and prosperity as a nation, under our glorious Union.
Take the banner; bear it proudly forward – always aloft! Remember that never yet has stain of dishonor fallen on its ample folds. Behold it waving on the battle fields of our early history, bringing victory to our country, and defeat to her enemies, wherever it was borne. The success of the flag is the history of our country, and never has it been borne to victory by truer soldiers than the hosts marshaled on our prairies. Mexican battle fields are yet moistened in our memories by the purest blood, and, her soil honored by the noblest graves, of Illinois’ immortal sons. And though the dark clouds of War hover over you, and the red glow of battle glimmer around you, and death assume command of the battle field, oh, let there be a noble and loyal hand to uphold this standard amid all the desolation.
Soldiers, you fight to preserve and maintain inviolate the liberties of your country; and though the contest be long, and the strife bloody, yet the result is not doubtful, -
“For Freedom’s battle once begun
Bequeathed by bleeding sire to son,
Tho’ baffled oft, is ever won!”
http://www.lincolnsbloomington.com/sources.html
RE: Who is this person? - RJNorton - 03-09-2023 08:32 AM
Thanks for posting, Steve. Her speech was very impressive.
RE: Who is this person? - David Lockmiller - 03-09-2023 12:42 PM
(03-08-2023 06:20 PM)RJNorton Wrote: On the other hand, Ed Steers argues that Lincoln was the author in Lincoln Legends: Myths, Hoaxes, and Confabulations Associated with Our Greatest President.
There is a thread on this topic here.
Roger wrote on Post #2 of the hyperlink thread:
This is a great question, Lane. The arguments on both sides seem convincing. Personally, I tend to agree with the latest research of Jason Emerson. Jason wrote an article titled "America's Most Famous Letter" for the February/March 2006 edition of American Heritage. Jason also wrote "New Evidence From an Ignored Voice: Robert Todd Lincoln and the Authorship of the Bixby Letter" in the Summer 2008 edition of the Lincoln Herald.
Here are just a couple of sentences from Jason's writing:
********************************
"The letters quoted prove not only that Robert Lincoln believed his father had written the Bixby letter but also that John Hay himself told Robert he'd had nothing to do with it.
So we come to a satisfying conclusion: America's greatest President wrote America's greatest letter."
********************************
I realize Michael Burlingame's research shows that John Hay told at least 6 people he wrote the letter; thus I am sure this debate will go on and on for a long time.
Professor Burlingame writes on this subject of authorship Abraham Lincoln: A Life, Volume Two, pages 736-737:
In the immediate aftermath of the election, Lincoln was unusually preoccupied. When Charles S. Spencer, head of the Lincoln and Johnson Campaign Club of New York City asked the president to provide a banquet toast, Lincoln wished to compose the text himself rather than have John Hay do it. [Emphasis added.] But as Hay told Spencer on November 25, Lincoln "was literally crowded out of the opportunity to writing a note" because "the crush here just now is beyond endurance."
Nor did Lincoln have time to write a suitable reply when Massachusetts Governor John A. Andrew requested a presidential acknowledgement of the heroic sacrifice made by one of his constituents, a widow named Lydia Bixby, who (falsely) claimed that she had lost five sons in the war. For the president's signature Hay wrote a letter of condolence.
The Bixby letter, as Lincoln biographer James G. Randall noted, "has taken a pre-eminent place as a Lincoln gem and a classic in the language.
My point is this: Who would be more able to write like President Lincoln on the same set of facts (i.e., the letter of request made by Massachusetts Governor John A. Andrew) than President Lincoln's long time secretary John Hay?
President Lincoln would have reviewed what had been written by Hay before signing the letter. If Lincoln thought an amendment to the letter as written by Hay was needed, he would have noted as such for correction. [Recall that the Emancipation Proclamation that was to be signed by President Lincoln on January 1, 1863 was returned to the Secretary of State for correction.] The letter itself would have been written in Hay's hand (not Lincoln's); the signature on the letter would have been in President Lincoln's hand. [I presume that the original letter is lost to history.]
An interesting footnote to history is provided by Professor Burlingame in the text (page 737): The adjutant general of Massachusetts, after hand-delivering the letter to Mrs. Bixby, provided copies to newspapers, which gave it wide distribution. One partisan Democratic journal sneeringly asked why "Mr. Lincoln's sons should be kept from the dangers of the field, while the sons of the laboring men are to be hurried into the harvest of death at the front? Are the sons of the rail-splitter, porcelain, and these other common clay?"
RE: Who is this person? - David Lockmiller - 03-10-2023 03:28 AM
Professor Burlingame provided additional evidence regarding the character of Mrs. Bixby (Abraham Lincoln: A Life, Volume Two, page 737):
"She lost two of her boys and tried to cheat the government out of money by claiming the others had been killed. Of the three survivors, one had deserted to the enemy, another may have done so, and the third was honorably discharged. Mrs. Bixby was born in Virginia, sympathized with the Confederacy, and disliked Lincoln so much that she apparently destroyed the letter in anger. Evidence suggests that she ran a whorehouse in Boston and was 'perfectly untrustworthy.'"
RE: Who is this person? - Steve - 03-10-2023 01:54 PM
(03-10-2023 03:28 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote: Professor Burlingame provided additional evidence regarding the character of Mrs. Bixby (Abraham Lincoln: A Life, Volume Two, page 737):
"She lost two of her boys and tried to cheat the government out of money by claiming the others had been killed. Of the three survivors, one had deserted to the enemy, another may have done so, and the third was honorably discharged. Mrs. Bixby was born in Virginia, sympathized with the Confederacy, and disliked Lincoln so much that she apparently destroyed the letter in anger. Evidence suggests that she ran a whorehouse in Boston and was 'perfectly untrustworthy.'"
Almost none of that is true.
According to her self reported birthplace in records the decades prior and after the war, she listed her birthplace as Rhode Island.
She definitely didn't run a whorehouse in Boston. She first arrives in Boston in 1859. Prior to that she lived in Hopkinton Mass. and Rhode Island. If the Boston city directories can be believed, she may have tried to be a nurse during the war to get some income.
At the time she went to visit Adjutant-General Schouler in the late summer of 1864, she was already receiving a government pension after the death of son Charles. Sons Henry, Oliver, and George were married and she wouldn't have been entitled to a pension for them anyway. Following the death of son Oliver on July 30, 1864 in Petersburg, Mrs Bixby became the guardian of Oliver's oldest son from his first marriage. It's possible that she went to see Schouler to see if the grandson could temporarily be added to her pension until he turned 16, like the children of other fallen soldiers in their widow's pensions.
At the time she went to see Schouler, she had every reason to believe 4 of her sons had been killed. Sons Henry and George were captured as POWs. There's actually an 1863 Boston newspaper article where Mrs Bixby is quoted mourning the death of son Henry following the battle of Gettysburg. I've checked Henry's civil war medical record and he was a patient in military hospitals in Maryland and Pennsylvania. He wasn't furloughed until early October 1864 and due to Lydia Bixby's constantly changing addresses, he may not have been able to contact her until then. Also, the two Boston newspapers which originally printed the letter mention an unnamed "sixth son" who was recovering at Readville. That's Henry, where he went to recover further after his furlough was over. The two Republican newspapers didn't go to visit Bixby or interview her, but got the information and letter text from Schouler. The only way those newspapers could've known about the son at Readville is if Mrs Bixby had updated Schouler, telling him that Henry was still alive PRIOR to the letter's arrival.
Son George was captured on the same day that Oliver was killed. The last record where we know George was still alive is when he arrived at Salisbury Prison on October 9, 1864. He had previously been held as a POW at Richmond. George died at Salisbury Prison sometime between then and February 1865. So while George was definitely still alive when she went to see Schouler, we don't know if he was still alive when she received the letter. Mrs Bixby apparently didn't learn that George had been captured and not killed until newspapers reported the fact after the letter had been printed and reprinted in the papers. Later reports that George had deserted to join the Confederate Army while at Salisbury are not true.
Son Edward did desert the Army in 1862 and Bixby does seem to have lied to Schouler about it. She never applied for a pension for Edward even though he deserted a year before Charles was killed and Henry was captured. So that can't be the reason why she lied to Schouler. Testimony Edward gave at his 1870 trial for larceny suggests he may have become a "bounty-jumper" following his desertion. Here's his testimony as reprinted on page 8 of the 21 February 1870 edition of the Springfield Daily Republican:
![[Image: Edward_Bixby_larceny.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Edward_Bixby_larceny.jpg)
Strangely, the paper can't bring itself to say that Edward was one of the five sons the letter referred to, having mistakenly been reported killed.
In regards to your prior post, there is no credible evidence that Hay ever claimed to have been the author of the letter. All those accounts fall apart on closer inspection.