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+--- Thread: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination (/thread-436.html)
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - JMadonna - 11-14-2012 01:31 PM
(11-14-2012 12:41 PM)J. Beckert Wrote: We don't know if he had a holster on at Ford's. That was observed by one of the Garrett's, I believe.
The point of Richter's theory is that he had no gun or holster at the theater but he had them at Garrett's. What I hear you saying is that he MAY have had a secret gun at the theater, but no holster. If true why would he stop along the way to pick up an empty holster? If your theory is correct and he had it in his pocket, he would have no need to stop and pick up a holster.
In short, the gun and holster are an inseparable pair. He either had them both on his person at all times or he picked up both after the shooting.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - J. Beckert - 11-14-2012 03:17 PM
I think you and Bill both come up with excellent theories, Jerry, and they're always very thought provoking, but I don't buy the boarding house stop minutes after shooting the President. It just seems improbable.
I can't see the holster and revolver being inseperable. Like I said earlier, it would be much more accessable in a coat pocket than under his coat in a holster. I'm sure he wouldn't stop to pick up an empty holster. Saddlebags? Herold had it? Who knows. My point (theory?) is that Booth was armed with more than a one shot pistol. Some folks make it sound as if those revolvers were so cumbersome it's like the equivilent of Booth rolling a gatling gun through the dress circle. They're just not that big. Two pounds and it will fit in your pocket. Easily concealed and an excellent insurance policy.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Jim Garrett - 11-14-2012 03:28 PM
I checked with my psychic. Madame Tonry spoke to Booth and he only carried the deringer and the dagger. The spirits began to fade and she didn't have time to ask where he picked up the revolvers.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - RJNorton - 11-14-2012 04:07 PM
(11-14-2012 03:28 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: The spirits began to fade and she didn't have time to ask where he picked up the revolvers.
Don't give up hope, Jim. Bill Nash may be able to find out as JWB was recently a patient in the emergency room at the hospital where Bill works.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Jim Garrett - 11-14-2012 04:20 PM
(11-14-2012 04:07 PM)RJNorton Wrote:(11-14-2012 03:28 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: The spirits began to fade and she didn't have time to ask where he picked up the revolvers.
Don't give up hope, Jim. Bill Nash may be able to find out as JWB was recently a patient in the emergency room at the hospital where Bill works.
Did he have a broken leg?
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Laurie Verge - 11-14-2012 05:05 PM
Two silly questions from a stupid female who has never even held a gun of any kind: Would Booth choose a weapon like the deringer for the kill because its report would be "quieter?" He did time his deed with a line causing laughter from the audience to give him an advantage. I would think that a deringer popped where a revolver was louder. Then, as Joe pointed out, it was disposable where a revolver still had ammunition.
Also, if men carried revolvers frequently in those days, did they always use a holster? For some reason, I have assumed that Easterners especially kept them in pockets when in civilian dress.
Another question that I think Blaine Houmes answered at a Surratt conference, but I have forgotten. What is the damage done by a deringer in comparison to a revolver? I would assume small hole, less gore vs. large hole with large splatter? He was close to his target and would get dirty - as would Mrs. Lincoln. If one small gun inflicting one small, efficient hole gets the job done, I would go with it.
End of dumb blonde questions...
BTW: I got a phone call from my grandson (age 12) today who wanted me to know about a catalog called Betty's Attic that is featuring a replica of the Booth deringer in a display case. $99. There was a strong hint of Christmas present in his call - which I ignored.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - JMadonna - 11-14-2012 05:29 PM
(11-14-2012 03:17 PM)J. Beckert Wrote: My point (theory?) is that Booth was armed with more than a one shot pistol. .... Easily concealed and an excellent insurance policy.
I understand your point, but the reality is that there could be no insurance policy for Booth's plan.
When Booth pulled the trigger the derringer was at most 2 inches from Lincoln's ear. If the gun went 'click', how much time do you think Booth would have had to drop the derringer, put his hand in his pocket, grab his 'insurance policy' and re-aim it at Lincoln? A couple of seconds at least.
By that time, Lincoln would have had Booth's extended arm. I'm pretty sure that's how Booth saw it too, which is why his other hand held a dagger with which he could still deliver a blow at best or fend off Lincoln's retaliation and allow him to jump the rail.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - J. Beckert - 11-14-2012 05:35 PM
The sound from the Deringer would be about the same as the revolver. Both guns were loaded with black powder and would easily hold 20-25 grains.
My point all along has been that Booth could have easily concealed that revolver in the pocket of his coat. Or his pants. Or his boots. I have a larger revolver that easily fits in the pocket of my Levi's.
There's a good picture in Twenty Days of the damage they think Lincoln's facial bones suffered from the charge of the shot. The blackening of his face was thought to come from the force of the round plowing through his head and fracturing the bones in his face. Either gun would have done that.
Buy the kid the Deringer . Scrooge.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - Jim Garrett - 11-14-2012 05:38 PM
(11-14-2012 05:05 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote: Two silly questions from a stupid female who has never even held a gun of any kind: Would Booth choose a weapon like the deringer for the kill because its report would be "quieter?" He did time his deed with a line causing laughter from the audience to give him an advantage. I would think that a deringer popped where a revolver was louder. Then, as Joe pointed out, it was disposable where a revolver still had ammunition.
Also, if men carried revolvers frequently in those days, did they always use a holster? For some reason, I have assumed that Easterners especially kept them in pockets when in civilian dress.
Another question that I think Blaine Houmes answered at a Surratt conference, but I have forgotten. What is the damage done by a deringer in comparison to a revolver? I would assume small hole, less gore vs. large hole with large splatter? He was close to his target and would get dirty - as would Mrs. Lincoln. If one small gun inflicting one small, efficient hole gets the job done, I would go with it.
End of dumb blonde questions...
BTW: I got a phone call from my grandson (age 12) today who wanted me to know about a catalog called Betty's Attic that is featuring a replica of the Booth deringer in a display case. $99. There was a strong hint of Christmas present in his call - which I ignored.
The deringer was a 44 caliber, and was loaded with a 42 caliber round ball. The Colt "naval" revolver was a 36 caliber, actually smaller bore. The sound difference might not be that different. However the shot barrell, round ball and possibly less powder of the deringer would probably mean more damage.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - J. Beckert - 11-14-2012 05:40 PM
Could be Jerry and I see your point, also. As far as Booth holding his arm extended after the "click", I think he'd be a little faster going for the revolver, but who knows. It's all conjecture, but makes for good discussion.
If you're going to the conference, we'll discuss it over a beer with that crotchety ole mule shoer from Arizona.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - JMadonna - 11-14-2012 05:44 PM
(11-14-2012 05:05 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote: Would Booth choose a weapon like the deringer for the kill because its report would be "quieter?"
Also, if men carried revolvers frequently in those days, did they always use a holster? For some reason, I have assumed that Easterners especially kept them in pockets when in civilian dress.
End of dumb blonde questions...
Quest 1. - No, you would use a derringer because it's concealable. You can smile, reach out like you're going to shake someone's hand and shoot him in the head without the victim ever know what hit him. - Can't do that with a revolver.
Quest 2. - No, but if you had a holster AND a gun - you would keep them together. In Booth's case he had both but the issue was when and where he got them. Since no one had seen either at the theater ....
Quest 3 - How long has it been since you were a blonde?
(11-14-2012 05:40 PM)J. Beckert Wrote: Could be Jerry and I see your point, also. As far as Booth holding his arm extended after the "click", I think he'd be a little faster going for the revolver, but who knows. It's all conjecture, but makes for good discussion.
If you're going to the conference, we'll discuss it over a beer with that crotchety ole mule shoer from Arizona.
Sounds good to me.
You know, thinking over Laurie' question I'll bet that's how Booth planned to shoot Lincoln. Extending his arm as if to shake his hand and shooting him point blank.
That was probably the reason he showed Forbes his card, hoping for an introduction but Forbes just waved him on. He certainly couldn't have known that Parker was AWOL.
Hmmm... better bring a pitcher of beer.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - L Verge - 11-14-2012 07:04 PM
Response to Joe: Send me the money; I'll buy the deringer for my grandson and sign the gift card from "Uncle Joe."
Response to Jerry: I'm blonde right now! Used to have dark auburn hair; but the grayer I got, the blonder I got.
Response to both: You better be kinder to me or your conference life will be miserable...
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - J. Beckert - 11-14-2012 07:14 PM
Response to Jerry: I just felt an eraser bounce off my head, so that can only mean we've chapped the teacher's hide. I'm done with this. See you in March.
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - L Verge - 11-14-2012 07:25 PM
Who told you the story of my hitting a student in the back of the room with an eraser that I threw from the front of the room?
RE: Booth's visit to the Surratt Boarding House after the assassination - JMadonna - 11-14-2012 07:33 PM
Good night to the Jean Harlow of historians.