Was there an assassin on Grant's train?

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RE: Was there an assassin on Grant's train? - L Verge - 07-22-2015 11:51 AM

John,

I understand your interest in my great-grandparents' correspondence, but I will not share them in their entirety with anyone else because only bits and pieces pertain to general Civil War history. I consider them private.

Just as an aside, my mother had a fear of having written family memories and memorabilia leaving the family. Many years ago (when she was about 70 - died at 94), she went to her aunt's estate auction and found her baby picture among the items for sale. She "stole" it from the table and went to her cousin in charge and offered to buy it, which was fine. I was also with her at a large antique show when she recognized a baby's cup from that same estate. There's a sad story behind it that I won't go into, but it brought my mom to tears, and I bought the cup. She also kept correspondence from my father that he sent to her while they were apart during WWII and the Korean conflict. She specifically asked me to burn them upon her death.

Although we are friends, some things are sacred...

RE: Was there an assassin on Grant's train? - John Fazio - 07-22-2015 02:51 PM

(07-22-2015 11:51 AM)L Verge Wrote: John,

I understand your interest in my great-grandparents' correspondence, but I will not share them in their entirety with anyone else because only bits and pieces pertain to general Civil War history. I consider them private.

Just as an aside, my mother had a fear of having written family memories and memorabilia leaving the family. Many years ago (when she was about 70 - died at 94), she went to her aunt's estate auction and found her baby picture among the items for sale. She "stole" it from the table and went to her cousin in charge and offered to buy it, which was fine. I was also with her at a large antique show when she recognized a baby's cup from that same estate. There's a sad story behind it that I won't go into, but it brought my mom to tears, and I bought the cup. She also kept correspondence from my father that he sent to her while they were apart during WWII and the Korean conflict. She specifically asked me to burn them upon her death.

Although we are friends, some things are sacred...

Laurie:

I perfectly understand. You are blessed to have such an extraordinary family history.

John

RE: Was there an assassin on Grant's train? - RJNorton - 07-22-2015 03:02 PM

Thank you to Rick Smith for sending this post. He sent it to me because I can upload the images to my server and then post them. These are images of men’s period clothing.

Rick writes:

"John’s use of the photo taken after David Herold had been living rough for 12 days may not be the best means of demonstrating that Herold was a sloppy dresser. Here are a few notes by way of explanation:

The sack [sacque]-style coat Herold is wearing is not corduroy material, but is twilled wool. I can see no signs of fraying, but it is stained. This is reasonably to be expected after he lived in the open for 12 days.

His vest (waistcoat) is of a military style. My feeling is that he acquired it in a trade with Willie Jett or while spending one night away with the Clarke family after crossing the Rappanhannock. The vest does have some buttons undone, but that is not unusual at all for the period. You can see in many photos of the time men with their vest buttons undone. This was an accepted style detail and also provided a convenient place to slip papers or wallets into – or even to pose a la Napoleon. It was all a matter of preference.

Herold’s hat may not seem to be stylish to the modern observer, but the rounded crown, narrow brimmed hat he is wearing was of a type favored by young men of the time. It is a little rumpled. He may have used it as a pillow, but it looks to be in good condition.

The necktie appears to be made of silk, a very common material for neck wear, and is narrow and frayed at the ends. Again, a style (even the fraying to achieve a fringed effect) like this was very popular among younger men.

His clothing seems to be of good quality, but has certainly been stressed by rough wear out of doors for a prolonged period. Which of us would want our appearance to be judged after living in the brush for over a week with no means of bathing, let alone keeping our clothes pressed and free of stains?

Sack Coat

Military Vest

Round Crown Hat

Frayed End Tie

Silk Tie

RE: Was there an assassin on Grant's train? - John Fazio - 07-22-2015 03:07 PM

(07-22-2015 11:06 AM)Rosieo Wrote:
(07-21-2015 01:10 PM)BettyO Wrote:
Quote:I am against the death penalty, but Herold, Booth, and the rest, they were criminals. They chose to take big chances. They ought not be romanticized.

No one is romanticizing anyone that I know of. We, as scholars, (and yes, there is that word again!) simply like to investigate, study and analyze these folk. I wouldn't call them criminals; political zealots, perhaps. The fact that they were southern, with southern beliefs did not make them criminal. They simply saw "their" country attacked and disagreed with the political stance of the day. Victorian Americans were totally different from today's mindset - and today's mindset doesn't belong in Victorian heads.

Laurie wrote: "Who in the hell said anything about romanticizing the conspirators? I resent the fact that you are trying to put me in the category of some old Southern lady who still believes in moonlight and magnolias!

It might interest you to know that I have letters (primary source - originals) from my great-grandfather Huntt to his fiancee written from Baltimore in April of 1861, describing the Baltimore Riots. He ends with a sentence that basically says that he will love her forever -- unless he finds out she is a secessionist! I also have ancestors who fought on both sides.

We're not analyzing a Civil War romance novel here. We are trying to understand our country's history from all angles. "

---
Rosieo here:
MerriamWebster.com
• Romanticize: to think about or describe something as being better or more attractive or interesting than it really is.

• Criminal: relating to, involving, or being a crime; guilty of crime; also: of or befitting a criminal <a criminal mind

I am not new in CW studies. I know about Maryland and the war - I get it. I understand patriotism and war-related killing. But killing is killing. It takes tough, rough people to do what Booth and company did. Personally, I do not hold them in high regard. JMO.

I selected this thread to see what scholars say about Grant and an assassin. I would feel very proud if I came up with some small contribution.

Laurie’s long post confused me as to its purpose. You guys are off topic all over the place on this forum! That is your way and I respect it. Probably new members let themselves get acclimated and do not post so quickly as I did upon signing up. I have been okay on Civil War scholar blogs and research is fun. I love the hunt. I love to talk about it. So I plunged in. It has been pretty choppy for me, I have to say. Not really working out.

Rosieo:

Hang in there. Don't throw the towel in yet. We have all been through the choppy waters, but if you persevere, things will get smoother, you will get to know everyone's style, their pluses and minuses, and you will therefore have a better handle as to when and how to proceed. We need you too.

John

RE: Was there an assassin on Grant's train? - LincolnToddFan - 07-25-2015 02:31 PM

Those clothes are very elegant, very well preserved! THANK YOU Roger for sharing them! Wink