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+--- Thread: Who Can You Believe (/thread-1832.html)
Who Can You Believe - BettyO - 07-25-2014 09:01 AM
During and right after the assassination, many articles appeared in the press, some of which were downright silly when one thinks about it. I just stumbled across this article (I believe that Linda Anderson pointed me in the right direction - Thanks, Linda!) in which it is stated that Lew Powell was practically "beat up" by Fanny Seward, and she jumped on him like a tiger when he burst into the Secretary's room.
Somehow, I simply can't see this.... once again, just part of the media playing things up - then as now!
[attachment=797]
RE: Who Can You Believe - Gene C - 07-25-2014 11:10 AM
Stranger things have happened. No telling what she could have done in an adrenaline rush. We do know that Payne did have a sense of chivalrous behavior (except with the housekeper/maid in Baltimore) so it is questionalbe whether he would strike back at Fanny.
Maybe he was more dazed by the whallop she gave him than the fall from his horse. That could account for part of his confusion in trying to escape from Washington and his horse getting away from him.
And as far as the media playing things up, if it weren't for them, how else would we know about important issues like the daily exploits of the Kardashian clan? And speaking of that, is it now Kim West or Kayne Kardashian?
Was Payne's horse ever recovered?
RE: Who Can You Believe - BettyO - 07-25-2014 11:18 AM
Powell's one-eyed nag was found by James Toffey. His coat was found by Thomas Price - both Union Soldiers.
Both Toffey and Price testified during the trial. No one bothered to supoena the nag....
RE: Who Can You Believe - Linda Anderson - 07-25-2014 02:53 PM
(07-25-2014 11:10 AM)Gene C Wrote: Stranger things have happened. No telling what she could have done in an adrenaline rush. We do know that Payne did have a sense of chivalrous behavior (except with the housekeper/maid in Baltimore) so it is questionalbe whether he would strike back at Fanny.
Maybe he was more dazed by the whallop she gave him than the fall from his horse. That could account for part of his confusion in trying to escape from Washington and his horse getting away from him.
And as far as the media playing things up, if it weren't for them, how else would we know about important issues like the daily exploits of the Kardashian clan? And speaking of that, is it now Kim West or Kayne Kardashian?
Was Payne's horse ever recovered?
It's Kimye, Gene.
Betty, have you ever found the source for Powell saying that Fanny stopped him from killing Seward or that he could not strike "that young girl watching there by her father?"
New York Times, 10/30/1866
"The fearless courage with which she threw herself between her father's breast and the uplifted knife of the assassin Payne, and the tenacity with which she clung to his arm, and sought to divert his deadly aim, attest this trait in her character. Payne afterward said that if he could have made up his mind to strike her out of his way he could have accomplished his purpose upon the Secretary, but that her face, between his weapon and her father disarmed him, and he had not the heart to take her life also."
Fanny Seward gave an interview "Not many months before her death," in which she describes Powell's attack.
"'A moment later I heard a scuffle, and started toward the door. Just then a man threw it open, ran past me, and jumped upon my father's bed. The nurse sprang after him, and caught hold of him. I saw the flashing of a knife, but did not see him strike my father. I could not stir; I could not scream with terror. He sprang from the bed and sprang past me out of the room, striking at everyone in his way except me.'
"'He afterward said he could not strike that young girl watching there by her father,' remarked Fred Seward."
Idaho Statesman, 12/11/1873
Fanny was not the only one who supposedly attacked Powell that evening. The housekeeper Margaret Coleman was reported to have "sprung upon him from behind" and suffered a broken collar-bone as a result. I think someone that would have noticed that night if Powell had actually broken her collar-bone.
Evening Star, 6/4/1887
RE: Who Can You Believe - BettyO - 07-26-2014 12:30 PM
Linda -
Yes, I have that somewhere in my newspaper files - I'll hunt for it -
Thanks!
RE: Who Can You Believe - Linda Anderson - 07-26-2014 12:36 PM
(07-26-2014 12:30 PM)BettyO Wrote: Linda -
Yes, I have that somewhere in my newspaper files - I'll hunt for it -
Thanks!
Thanks, Betty!
RE: Who Can You Believe - LincolnToddFan - 07-28-2014 08:05 PM
The Seward kids were ferociously devoted to their father. They all fought like mountain lions to protect him that night. Wasn't Augustus(Gus) Seward injured in the tussle with Payne at some point as well?
Several accounts I've read has Fanny pleading "Don't hurt him, please don't hurt him". I was always moved by the thought that it apparently didn't cross her mind that they might ALL be in mortal danger at the moment she saw Payne...she immediately tried to save her beloved father.
RE: Who Can You Believe - Linda Anderson - 07-28-2014 08:55 PM
(07-28-2014 08:05 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: The Seward kids were ferociously devoted to their father. They all fought like mountain lions to protect him that night. Wasn't Augustus(Gus) Seward injured in the tussle with Payne at some point as well?
Several accounts I've read has Fanny pleading "Don't hurt him, please don't hurt him". I was always moved by the thought that it apparently didn't cross her mind that they might ALL be in mortal danger at the moment she saw Payne...she immediately tried to save her beloved father.
You're right about the Seward family, Toia. Mrs. Seward wrote to a friend afterwards that she had never seen children so devoted to their father.
Gus was sleeping in preparation for taking over the night shift from Fanny. He awoke to Fanny screaming and came running out of his room without his gun thinking that his father was delirious from the medicine he was taking as a result of his recent carriage accident.
Fanny wrote that after Powell's attack:
"I went into Augustus’ room_
he was lying on the bed _ & asked about Father _ (he came in
once or more to see him) he had five wounds on the
head- & one on the hand. He told me they were not
serious."
Fred didn't have a chance to fight Powell because Powell struck him over the head with his revolver before Fred could react to Powell's gun misfiring. What amazes me is that even with his skull fractured, Fred managed to get to his father's bedroom door at the same time as Powell so he could warn him.
Fanny describes seeing "two men came in, side by side. I was
close by the door, & the one nearest me, was Fred. The side
of his face was covered with blood, the rest very pale, his eyes
full of intense expression. I spoke to ask him what was
the matter,—he could not answer me."
RE: Who Can You Believe - LincolnToddFan - 07-29-2014 02:26 AM
Thanks Linda-
It's a miracle Fred survived that night. A small part of his brain was exposed from the force of the pistol breaking open his skull. He was comatose for several days afterward, and at least one newspaper reported that he had died.
After he recovered he wore a cap for the rest of his life.
RE: Who Can You Believe - Houmes - 07-29-2014 04:07 PM
(07-29-2014 02:26 AM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: Thanks Linda-
It's a miracle Fred survived that night. A small part of his brain was exposed from the force of the pistol breaking open his skull. He was comatose for several days afterward, and at least one newspaper reported that he had died.
After he recovered he wore a cap for the rest of his life.
I've read this line ("...a small part of his brain was exposed...") before and highly doubt--in an era where there were no antibiotics or knowledge of antiseptic treatment--that his brain was exposed. Back then, as a rule, it would have been a death sentence from meningitis. It's much more likely that they saw his skull exposed. Today, it's common to see the skull if a laceration is deep enough.
RE: Who Can You Believe - LincolnToddFan - 07-29-2014 04:57 PM
Hi Mr. Houmes,
You read my mind! I read that line and I also wondered how he could have survived such a severe brain injury in 1865. Even today, a person would be in considerable danger with an injury like that. Maybe there was a bit of brain matter observed coming from the wound?
I have seen photos of Fred taken years after the assault and he did indeed have a head covering, so he must have suffered some type of permanent disfigurement.
RE: Who Can You Believe - Houmes - 07-29-2014 08:14 PM
(07-29-2014 04:57 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: Hi Mr. Houmes,
You read my mind! I read that line and I also wondered how he could have survived such a severe brain injury in 1865. Even today, a person would be in considerable danger with an injury like that. Maybe there was a bit of brain matter observed coming from the wound?
I have seen photos of Fred taken years after the assault and he did indeed have a head covering, so he must have suffered some type of permanent disfigurement.
The reason Fred Seward wore different head coverings is because he had a depressed skull fracture. This was before the days of refined neurosurgery, so efforts to reduce a fracture (and relieve pressure on the brain) would involve elevating the skull fragment as much as possible with an instrument which looked like a dental pick. When that wasn't handy, a Civil War surgeon would use an ordinary kitchen fork, bending one or more of the tines to the right shape.
RE: Who Can You Believe - Linda Anderson - 07-29-2014 09:05 PM
Fanny wrote in her diary about Fred's injury.
Washington - Friday, May 11, 1866. "Rose at six 1/2 - fine lovely morning. After breakfast I learned with pain that dear Fred's wounds were worse - yesterday - Anna [Fred's wife] says - the inflammation extended below his cap - now both wounds are festered - last evening he was too weary to sit up - & last night very restless and feverish. Anna is not well - so anxious. Surg. Gen here this A. M. & says Fred has been working too hard. He came to breakfast seeming well as usual - & went to Dept."
Auburn - Thursday, September 13, 1866. "Drove with Anna in [the] morning. Slight chill on return.
"Anna tells me that she thinks Fred's wounds are now about in the same condition that they were before the hot weather commenced - they have been much worse. At present the pulsing of the brain is visible."
Sensitivity and Civil War, Patricia Carley Johnson
RE: Who Can You Believe - LincolnToddFan - 07-29-2014 10:01 PM
(07-29-2014 08:14 PM)Houmes Wrote:(07-29-2014 04:57 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: Hi Mr. Houmes,
You read my mind! I read that line and I also wondered how he could have survived such a severe brain injury in 1865. Even today, a person would be in considerable danger with an injury like that. Maybe there was a bit of brain matter observed coming from the wound?
I have seen photos of Fred taken years after the assault and he did indeed have a head covering, so he must have suffered some type of permanent disfigurement.
The reason Fred Seward wore different head coverings is because he had a depressed skull fracture. This was before the days of refined neurosurgery, so efforts to reduce a fracture (and relieve pressure on the brain) would involve elevating the skull fragment as much as possible with an instrument which looked like a dental pick. When that wasn't handy, a Civil War surgeon would use an ordinary kitchen fork, bending one or more of the tines to the right shape.
Oh my God! ...thanks for the info Dr. Houmes. I think.
(07-29-2014 09:05 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: Fanny wrote in her diary about Fred's injury.
Washington - Friday, May 11, 1866. "Rose at six 1/2 - fine lovely morning. After breakfast I learned with pain that dear Fred's wounds were worse - yesterday - Anna [Fred's wife] says - the inflammation extended below his cap - now both wounds are festered - last evening he was too weary to sit up - & last night very restless and feverish. Anna is not well - so anxious. Surg. Gen here this A. M. & says Fred has been working too hard. He came to breakfast seeming well as usual - & went to Dept."
Auburn - Thursday, September 13, 1866. "Drove with Anna in [the] morning. Slight chill on return.
"Anna tells me that she thinks Fred's wounds are now about in the same condition that they were before the hot weather commenced - they have been much worse. At present the pulsing of the brain is visible."
Sensitivity and Civil War, Patricia Carley Johnson
Hi Linda,
My younger brother was in a fall from the roof of our house when he was about 12...the paramedics were called and before they took him away I noticed the same type of "pulsing" of his open head wound that Fanny described. My mom was almost hysterical. Thank goodness my brother turned out okay.
As usual...thanks for fascinating info. It's sobering to realize that Fred was still suffering and not recovered over a year after the tragedy.
RE: Who Can You Believe - Linda Anderson - 07-29-2014 11:00 PM
I'm so glad to hear that your brother was okay after his terrible experience, Toia.
Fred Seward turned out okay, too. He finished his term as Assistant Secretary of State in 1869, went on to serve two years as Assistant Secretary of State in the Hayes administration and retired to an estate on the Hudson River in Montrose, NY where he finished the autobiography his father had started many years before. Fred died at the age of 84 in Montrose. He was the longest lived of all his siblings.
Here's a link to Montrose. The image is reversed.
http://www.geh.org/ar/strip14/htmlsrc/m198122910171_ful.html