+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Abraham Lincoln before his Presidency (/forum-2.html)
+--- Thread: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit (/thread-1744.html)
Pages: 1 2
Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - RJNorton - 06-14-2014 01:36 PM
For many years Lincoln rode the Eighth Judicial Circuit in Illinois. According to historian Mark Neely this took roughly 11 weeks in the spring and another 11 weeks in the fall. This means Lincoln was away from home about 22 weeks of the year. He traveled with a judge and other lawyers, and cases were tried in 14 different counties. The group would travel by horse or buggy.
David Davis, who traveled with the group was interviewed by William Herndon. Davis said:
"In my opinion I think Mr Lincoln was happy — as happy as he could be, when on this Circuit — and happy no other place. This was his place of Enjoyment. As a general rule when all the lawyers of a Saturday Evening would go home and see their families & friends at home Lincoln would refuse to go home — . It seemed to me that L was not domestically happy."
Herndon, himself, wrote, "On Saturdays the court and attorneys, if within reasonable distance, would usually start for their homes. Some went for a fresh supply of clothing, but the greater number went simply to spend a day of rest with their families. The only exception was Lincoln, who usually spent his Sundays with the loungers at the country tavern, and only went home at the end of the circuit or term of court."
Historian William Gienapp, writing in Abraham Lincoln and Civil War America: A Biography, says "Being left alone on the weekends in distant towns gave him the solitude he craved."
Personally I am puzzled why Lincoln was apparently the only one in the group not to visit his family during breaks on the circuit. I have always felt he loved his wife and boys dearly, and I think 11 weeks is a long time to be away. To me it makes sense to visit his family when possible.
Does this surprise anyone else? Does anyone have an explanation for Lincoln not coming home to see his wife and children? Many thanks for any input on helping me understand something I do not understand.
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - Susan Higginbotham - 06-14-2014 01:45 PM
Maybe he didn't like coming home, only to have to say good-bye again at the end of the weekend?
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - Eva Elisabeth - 06-14-2014 01:56 PM
Roger, I can't come up with sources right now, have to look it up first, but I read he was homesick and missed his wife and kids, and later when the railway connections improved indeed often did travel home at the weekends.
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - RJNorton - 06-14-2014 01:58 PM
(06-14-2014 01:56 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Roger, I can't come up with sources right now, have to look it up first, but I read he was homesick and missed his wife and kids, and later when the railway connections improved indeed often did travel home at the weekends.
Eva, yes, in the later years this is exactly what Mark Neely writes. Basically I am curious about his apparent lack of visits home in the earlier years (1840's and maybe early 1850's; Neely writes that Lincoln could reach every circuit town via railroad by 1857).
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - LincolnToddFan - 06-14-2014 03:01 PM
Hi Roger-here is what I have read on the issue of the Eighth Circuit and AL's visits home. I am quoting directly from "Legends That Libel Lincoln" pgs 132-134:
..[We are told that Lincoln, when traveling the circuit, would not go home at weekends to visit his family, as his fellow attorneys did, and how the impression was that this was because of his unhappy home life.Yet we know that Lincoln adored his boys. He loved to play and romp with them; he could find no fault in them; and indulged them in every way he could. Even that love, we are asked to believe, could not lure him home. Apparently it did not occur to his fellow lawyers that perhaps he was gloomy, when he saw them leaving for their homes, because it was often physically impossible for him to go to his family. The Eighth Judicial Circuit was originally about 150 miles long and nearly as wide. At it's largest extent, and when transportation was poorest, it covered approximately 11,000 square miles. There were no railroads in this circuit until about 1853 or 1854. The roads were wretched, particularly in the spring of the year. Travel by horseback or by horse and buggy was slow and arduous. Lincoln was one of the very few attorneys, some say he was the only one, who traveled the entire circuit. Let us see what Paul Angle has to say about this: "Prior to the '50's when the main lines of most of the present railroad system of Illinois were constructed, Lincoln could have had little opportunity to return to his home on weekends. While most of the lawyers of the circuit practiced only in the counties adjacent to their own, he made the entire round. Since courts were held on both Saturday and Monday, distance prevented him from returning to Springfield except at long intervals, though other attorneys, living much nearer, might visit their families almost every week. As a matter of fact as transportation facilities improved Lincoln's absences became shorter and shorter....as early as 1854 Lincoln could-and did-leave Springfield for Clinton on a Tuesday morning, arrive there that afternoon, spend three days in court, and return home again on Friday night."]
Author sources Paul Angle's "Abraham Lincoln:Circuit Lawyer" and Herndon/Weik's "Life of Lincoln"
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - RJNorton - 06-14-2014 03:20 PM
Hi Toia. Thank you for such a wonderful reply, and now I have a much greater understanding. I have always felt he loved his family, and this must have been hard to be away for so long.
P.S. I have been married 47 years, and the longest my wife and I have ever been away from each other is 3 1/2 days! This may have influenced my curiosity on this question!
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - Eva Elisabeth - 06-14-2014 03:43 PM
I, too, read that it was because of the distances (but haven't yet checked where). However, I was curious why he was the only one whom that concerned, but Springfield is definitely the least central place of the circuit.
According to this site:
http://mrlincolnandfriends.org/judicial/index.asp
"As organized in 1839, the Circuit included Champaign, Dewitt, Macon, Mason, McLean, Menard, Sangamon and Tazewell. Three years later, Christian, Logan, Shelby and Woodford Counties were added. In 1853 State's judicial circuits were realigned. The new Eighth Circuit was limited to Sangamon, Logan, McLean, Woodford, Tazewell, DeWitt, Champaign, and Vermilion."
[attachment=694]
(The map on the link is better to read, but it's interactive and doesn't download the names.)
I recall reading it was also to safe money, but travelling by horse should have been for free?!
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - LincolnToddFan - 06-14-2014 03:49 PM
(06-14-2014 03:20 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Hi Toia. Thank you for such a wonderful reply, and now I have a much greater understanding. I have always felt he loved his family, and this must have been hard to be away for so long.Roger, you and your wife sound like you have that rarest of treasures...a happy marriage. GOOD FOR YOU!
P.S. I have been married 47 years, and the longest my wife and I have ever been away from each other is 3 1/2 days! This may have influenced my curiosity on this question!
BTW I have found one of the sources for the "homesick" comment. Daniel Mark Epstein attributes it AL's friend and fellow attorney James Conkling...."I found Lincoln desperately homesick(in Bloomington) and turning his head frequently toward the south".
pg#75 "The Lincolns:Portrait of a Marriage
Author Charles Strozier, in his excellent psycho-biography "Lincoln's Quest for Union" suggests that long absences were essential to AL's emotional health and happiness, as they provided a stabilizing balance against the intimacy he was never quite comfortable with.
Doris Kearns Goodwin seems to endorse that view with "...for the first time, he enjoyed the security and warmth of a family circle without neglecting his devotion to reading, studying, traveling on the legal circuit, and cultivating politics. While the marriage was tumultuous at times, it provided Lincoln with a protected harbor from which he could come and go as he pleased while he continued his lifelong quest to become an educated person."
pgs 104-105 "Team of Rivals" paperback version
Also, it bears remembering that AL was very heavily in debt for at least about a decade after his wedding, debt incurred in New Salem. He would have been very motivated to work constantly not only to provide for his growing family, but to pay off what he called the "national debt".
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - RJNorton - 06-14-2014 04:10 PM
Thank you, Eva! And thanks again, Toia! Things make much more sense after seeing the outstanding research you folks did. Much appreciated!
It sounds like the men had a very interesting time. From
http://mrlincolnandfriends.org/inside.asp?pageID=3&subjectID=3
"Circuit life could be unpleasant. At one point the tavern in David Davis's home town of Bloomington was so dirty that Davis refused to stay there - asking instead that the court clerk put up him and Mr. Lincoln. In 1851, Davis complained that the "eating is poor" at Bailey's tavern in Urbana. But it also had its charms and life could also be "glorious fun" according to attorney Usher Linder, a fellow Kentucky native who sometimes served as a co-counsel with Mr. Lincoln. Although travel could be rigorous, reported Benjamin Thomas, many of "these trips were joyous and exhilarating. One lawyer remembered with pleasure the 'good company, the exhilaration of great speed, over an elastic road, much of it a turf of grass, often crushing under our wheels the most beautiful wild flowers, every grove fragrant with blossoms, framed in the richest green, our roads not fenced in by narrow lanes."
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - LincolnToddFan - 06-14-2014 04:33 PM
Thanks Roger. AL was what we call a "man's man" in the best, truest sense of the word. He enjoyed the humor, camaraderie, intellectual stimulation, all the things that one would only have gotten exclusively within a circle of male friends in 19th century America.
One of (many) puzzling and unfair charges Michael Burlingame makes is that AL's long absences from home-caused of course by his unhappy marriage-negatively affected his relationships with his sons.
(Abraham Lincoln-A Life-vol I)
Robert Todd Lincoln was not especially close to his father, as most Lincoln scholars agree. Part of it might have been because of AL's frequent absences during "Bobby's" early childhood but mostly it seems to have been because their characters and personalities were drastically different. Even so, he revered his father's memory to the end of his life.
Edward Baker(Eddie) Lincoln died just short of his 4th birthday but he is said to have adored his father. "Eddie's eyes light up just at the mention of your name". (Mary Todd Lincoln: Her Life and Letters) Justin G. Turner, Linda Leavitt-Turner
Then of course there are Willie and Tad. It hardly bears repeating how close Lincoln was to his two youngest children. He was quite simply crazy about them, and they seemed to adore him almost to the point of worship. There is no reason ever to think that his absences from home affected his relationships with them. There are too many eyewitnesses to the love and closeness he had for those boys to even begin to list here.
On what is Burlingame basing his opinion about AL's absences adversely impacting his relationships with his sons?
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - Eva Elisabeth - 06-14-2014 04:56 PM
Just to add (I'm alway amazed how fast y'all write): Jean Baker writes: "He was kept from home by the location of Springfield on the lower axis of the 830 miles separating the courts in the 8th Illinois circuit...Indeed, most of his intimates understood how homesick he was for his wife and his sons". There's a footnote after this sentence with several sources (e.g. "Conkling papers", seems the same as for Toia's Epstein quote), but they refer to a longer passage than just this. I also wanted to remind of that A. L. was one of the few congressmen who brought his family to Washington, (and the only at Mrs. Sprigg's) despite the costs of the trip, and in 1848 the family travelled together to Niagara etc.
(06-14-2014 03:49 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: Also, it bears remembering that AL was very heavily in debt for at least about a decade after his wedding, debt incurred in New Salem. He would have been very motivated to work constantly not only to provide for his growing family, but to pay off what he called the "national debt".Toia, I recall (as I said) reading that, too, more than once, but I wonder - travelling by horse is for free, isn't it? And sleeping at home saves boarding house fees. Do you have any explanation?
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - LincolnToddFan - 06-14-2014 09:02 PM
Hi Eva,
I am a little confused by the question...traveling via horse is free, but the issue about returning home frequently was not about cost. Most of the lawyers on the circuit practiced in counties adjacent to their homes. Not AL, who rode the entire circuit. So my understanding of what I read is that it was not possible for him to ride home by horse and get there in a short time, it would simply have taken too long. Instead of practicing law and receiving much needed income, most of his time would have been spent going back and forth to Springfield for visits.
Good point about bringing his family to Washington with him when he first went to Congress. Forgot about that one!
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - Eva Elisabeth - 06-15-2014 03:44 PM
I don't know whether this affected his weekends (also as for preparing), but according to Lamon "Mr. Lincoln was always called upon to make the speech for the Whigs. There was never a ‘court week’ when he did not address the people of the county some night in the old brick Courthouse.”, and AFAIK it had been like that quite from the beginning. Just a thought. And Mary had always supported him spending time and efforts on a political career.
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - Kieran McAuliffe - 06-15-2014 05:33 PM
I am trying to get my Abraham Lincoln map finished and wanted detail on the Eighth Judicial Curcuit. I wanted to make sure I have the route correctly shown on my map. I didn’t want to rely on any previous map, most of which are lacking in detail. t asked Dr. Wayne Temple for advice and he recommended
Lincoln's Ladder to the Presidency: The Eighth Judicial Circuit
by Guy C. Fraker
I have not finished the book yet but I find it excellent and full of fascinating detail. I recommend it highly.
I made a mistake and ordered the Kindle version. I don’t recommend a Kindle version if you want to use it for reference or refer to the index. It can be done, but nothing beats grabbing the book and flipping to the back for a page reference. Kindle books are OK for novels and thrillers.
Many times one hears “What book would you recommend that I read about Abraham Lincoln?” I frequently say “Pick up any book on Lincoln and start there.” Each and every book on Lincoln leads to others. I find every stage of his life so interesting and multi-layered. Once you dive in you just keep swimming. This book is a perfect example. How did Lincoln become President? The introduction to this book is very insightful. Lincoln’s work on the Circuit made him President. Lincoln’s Ladder To The Presidency is available on Amazon.
RE: Abraham Lincoln and the Eighth Judicial Circuit - L Verge - 06-15-2014 06:30 PM
Kieran,
Speaking of your maps, Ed Bearss was leading the Smithsonian group at Surratt House yesterday (still spry at 91). He wanted to know when we can expect your CW DC map...