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Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012 07:25 AM
Gore Vidal died yesterday (July 31st) at age 86. He claimed admire Lincoln greatly. Any thoughts on his passing? What about his novel- Lincoln?
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - Laurie Verge - 08-01-2012 08:27 AM
I read very few of Vidal's works, but he did manage to keep the "idea" of history being entertaining alive. However, he was no David McCullough.
That said, I did read and enjoy (and overlooked errors in) Lincoln. It has been years since I read it, but I remember thinking at the time that he managed to make Lincoln seem like the mere mortal he was - not the god that so many have turned him into.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012 08:32 AM
Laurie: great point. Vidal tried to keep Lincoln "human"- yet as a human (like all of us )-he rose to such great heights.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - BettyO - 08-01-2012 10:02 AM
I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Vidal has passed on. I read Burr years ago and enjoyed it greatly. I have also read his Lincoln - and yes, errors aside enjoyed it a well. I was also an extra in the shooting of Gore Vidal's Lincoln which was filmed here in Richmond in 1986. Yes, I have photos and got to meet both Mary Tyler Moore (Mrs. Lincoln) and Sam Waterston (Lincoln) -- both were very pleasant and amiable. I even gave Sam Waterston a tour through Maymont House when I volunteered there. He had a wonderful sense of humor and yes, Mary Tyler Moore IS "Our Mary" -- just as she appeared on the "Mary Tyler Moore Show!
![[Image: markandionsetofgorevida.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/markandionsetofgorevida.jpg/)
On Set of Gore Vidal's Lincoln, Richmond 1986
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - Linda Anderson - 08-01-2012 10:13 AM
Great picture, Betty! I can so easily see you living in the 19th century.
I'm sorry, too, to learn of Vidal's death. I've been trying to avoid the news so I don't know the Olympic results ahead of the evening show.
I think Lincoln is a wonderful historical novel. It should be read slowly because there is so much detail on each page. Lincoln is seen through the eyes of William Seward, Mary Lincoln, John Hay, Salmon Chase, Davy Herold and others but there is always the ironical tone of the narrator that makes reading the book so much fun.
I've randomly picked out a paragraph from the beginning of the book when Lincoln sneaks into Washington after being elected President.
"Lincoln did not answer. Washburne wondered if he was listening. Outside the depot the shrunken wintry sun resembled a small, pale, yellow seal affixed to the parchment-gray sky to the left of where the Capitol's dome should be but was not. Instead, from the round marble base, reminiscent of one of Gautier's white wedding cakes, a large crane was silhouetted against the sky like a gallows."
Just in that paragraph there is vivid description, history and foreshadowing.
Later in the book Seward gives Lincoln an ill-advised memorandum. Lincoln says, 'I take two essential points from your memorandum. The first is that we should begin a continental war with the European powers as a huge diversion, including a declaration of war on Spain. Precisely how we are to overthrow the Spanish garrisons in Santo Domingo and Cuba when we cannot, properly, support one of our own forts in South Carolina, you do not say...' Lincoln put on his glasses and read. "'Either the President must do it himself, and be all the while active in it or devolve it on some member of his Cabinet.'" For a moment, Lincoln looked over the top rims of his glasses at Seward, who maintained his Jesuitical smile..."
Seward defends his position but "Lincoln tapped the table with one long finger; and Seward stopped as if he had heard the cracking of a whip...'Now I realize that it is your view that our party made a significant error in nominating me instead of you...'
"'Sir, I have never said such a thing.'
"Lincoln smiled. 'I am sure you are far too loyal a member of my Administration to ever say such a thing. But you have just written it, confidentially, to me.' Lincoln paused.
"Seward had a sense of having, somehow, lost control of a situation which he had assumed had been very much in hand. 'Sir, I have in good-and open, to you, that is-faith made know my deep opinion-'
"'For which I thank you. We shall now act as if this exchange never took place.'
"Seward rose. 'Under the circumstances, sir, I think it best for me to resign.'
"'Well, I don't. So you just stay where you are. We have more than enough work for two men to do.'"
Earlier in the exchange Seward thinks that Lincoln has "the eyes of a hunter." Perfect.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012 10:21 AM
There was a Lincoln documentary a few years ago (on Lincoln's depression) in which Gore is frequently making comments and offering insights. At the point where Gore is talking about Lincoln's death, he begins to tear up and has difficulty finishing his commentary. To me it was a powerful moment- both for Gore and for the viewers. I was quite moved by his obvious emotional tie to Lincoln's death.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - Linda Anderson - 08-01-2012 10:31 AM
Bill, do you know who made the documentary? Maybe it is online. I'd love to see it.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - Gene C - 08-01-2012 11:31 AM
I may be the only one, but I didn't care that much for the book when I read it several years ago, although I can't remember why. IMO, it just didn't measure up with other books I have read.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012 04:13 PM
Linda: its simply called: Lincoln. Features Gore Vidal & Vikram Jayanti. It was put out by A & E Home Video and is 180 minutes long. Released in 2006. Time very well spent!
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - Linda Anderson - 08-01-2012 04:31 PM
(08-01-2012 04:13 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: Linda: its simply called: Lincoln. Features Gore Vidal & Vikram Jayanti. It was put out by A & E Home Video and is 180 minutes long. Released in 2006. Time very well spent!
Thank you, Bill. I'll look for it.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - Linda Anderson - 08-01-2012 09:02 PM
I agree, Herb. Vidal does a great job of describing the cat and mouse game between Lincoln and Seward that ends in Lincoln showing Seward that he (Lincoln) was the President, not Seward.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - LincolnMan - 08-01-2012 09:40 PM
Betty: MTM had a fairly recent brain tumor surgery. I hope she is okay. I thought she did a fine job as Mrs. Lincoln. You look great, by the way, in your Victorian dress. Did you get to keep it or no?
I also think I remember that MTM's ancestor was a Confederate officer.
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - Lindsey - 08-03-2012 01:34 PM
I'll admit I didn't read all of "Lincoln" I just skipped to the parts about Davey who seems to actually have a pretty big role. But almost all of it is nonsense for as Vidal himself said, "As David's life is largely unknown until Booth's conspiracy, I have invented a low-life for him." Geez....
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - LincolnMan - 08-03-2012 08:18 PM
Gore Vidal once told a story of Lincoln visiting a prostitute but not having enough money for the service. He told that the prostitute was willing to take what he did have but Lincoln refused. When I heard the story I thought it sounded "fishy." Anyone else familiar with the story? Any truth to it?
RE: Gore Vidal and Lincoln's legacy - Bill Richter - 08-03-2012 08:44 PM
I have heard it and it is an old one--truth? I do not honestly know if it is true